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Hi, we are a family of 5 planning to move to Chengdu from the UK. My husband was given a job in Chengdu university, I am not employed officially, but would like to get a job (I am a piano teacher with Master’s degree) as soon as childcare arrangements are sorted.
We have 12, 11 and a year old. I understand that private tuition is totally out of our price range, however, we have come to conclusion that home-schooling for a short period of time, combined with intense Chinese language learning will see us through, until older children can join in mainstream education.
My main concerns are medical care, affordability of housing and my own employment. I am sure there are many other issues that needs addressing so anything suggested will be greatly valued.
I would be grateful for any advice.
Many thanks
Hello Infallible,
I would suggest that you add to your concerns the food safety and quality. You can get health insurance from some of the main insurance companies here ( I have a policy, from a national company), and it can range from 5000-10,000 rmb per year, depending on what coverage you buy.
As a parent I would investigate food issues here in China. It can be quite surprising. Unfortunately Organic food is quite costly.
Housing, it all depends on what you want and where you live. Also take into consideration the bad air quality during the fall and winter. We just had a week of 150-200+ in Chengdu, and it will most likely continue this way till the end of winter with some good days here and there.
Working as a piano teacher, dunno. If your husband is a subject teacher at the Uni making 20,000 + a month, I think you can take care of your family in the way you would desire, i.e. healthy food, air filters, safe housing, etc, IMHO. If not, perhaps a little extra research should be sought. Don’t want to sound too negative, but it kinda sounds like your not too familiar with China and Chengdu?
Either way, Chengdu and Sichuan are a nice place, but with kids come other concerns and perspectives come into play in contrast to those without. I am a parent as well, so I have some differing views than those that luv CD. If it wasn’t for the money, I would be in Kunming or Xiamen, or somewhere with some sun and good air! 🙂
Hi Drjtrekker!
Thank you very much for your response.
You are absolutely right, I have no experience living in China!
I was under impression that buying food in supermarket rather than ‘open’ market would somehow insure freshness and safety…is a wishful thinking?!
My husband is offered faculty position (Chemical Engineering) with a remuneration of 200.000 of local currency. I am not sure whether it is good, enough, or utterly unmanageable. There are not extra bonuses attached to this package and none are expected, therefore my income would be necessary (I believe).
We are thinking to rent an unfurnished apartment and fill it up with our own goods, which will hopefully save some cash in a long run. Desirably, the apartment would be located somewhere with reasonable transport link, metro etc. Looking at the rental market, on the web as well as in this forum, I sense that we are going to spend no less than 4000 RNB a month for a 3 bed flat. If paying year in advance will save some cash this option will also be considered.
I contacted medical insurance rep (not sure what you call it) and was quoted £6000 per year for our family on comprehensive insurance excluding maternity and dental care. That is equivalent to 60.000 RNB.
Basically that leaves us with very small amount of disposable cash, or I may be wrong.
It seems that after tax we will be left with 15000 (?) RNB per month, and we will need to balance rent, medical insurance, food, and other groceries for 5 people. Is it doable?
Sorry my post seems heavily materialistic, but if we are unable to fulfil basic needs such as roof, medical care and reasonable food then it is hard to think of cultural experiences which I am sooooooo eager to explore.Thank you again
Infallible,
The problem with the question of it’s “doable” is that it’s subjective. People often ask these type of questions on various forums, whether X amount of money is enough to live on, but it all depends on How u live, what you will eat, the types of food you buy, etc. I am sure you know how to budget, right? I think you could make it work.
No housing allowance and other ‘perks’ is unfortunate. Can you guys re negotiate? 🙂
But, for example, ur 1 year old, milk? I buy imported milk for my baby, which costs a little more than the local milk. Formula, no one wants to use local formula. If your 1 year old is sick, even with insurance, will u be willing to go to the main hospital waiting for a long time to get service that you may not be comfortable with??? Hospitals here will most likely be quite different than what you are used to. Or would u opt to go to the foreign clinic where it will cost from 500-1000 rmb to see the doc, but get seen quickly with an English speaking doctor and nurses?
The older kids? education? If they are not home schooled the whole time, you will have to pay tuition, and will you be able to? And will they fit in, could they handle the classes in Chinese? Are you familiar with Chinese style teaching?
My general point is simply this, with kids you need to consider a variety of other issues, some which can be challenging. And if your not sure of all of this, and don’t have answers or the funds to cover these things…..then?
Thanks again….
Of course, I agree with you entirely.
I thought about kids education, and fear that my children (as other kids brought up in the West) have no idea how intense and dense the teaching/learning is going to be.
Regarding re-negotiation on pay and bonuses…Is it something that it is practiced frequently without causing a shock?
And what is the normal practice… Are we able to ask for assistance with relocation, or settlement, or help with something related to establishing life abroad, banking, renting, initial integration. Should/could we do it now prior to our arrival or after?So far we are told of privileges of annual salary (200.000) which is not so privileged after looking at prices and demands of a fairly large family.
One more thing that I can’t get answer to, even from Chinese embassy or consulate in London or Manchester… It seems that to work you need to have a work visa, Z visa, this is what my husband is applying for. I understand that as a family member children and I can join my husband, but if I want to work in China, what then? Do I need to leave China and re-enter with work visa, or I can get a work permit irrespective of the rule as long as I am coming under the umbrella of Z visa holder?
As I said, when I contacted consulate I was told that they are unaware of procedures, which I find really odd and really frustrating.
If embassy doesn’t know, who would!The last but not least…Baby milk and regular milk, is normal UHT style milk, or fresh pasteurised milk is not available in the shop? Should I pack as many as the customs allow? And how easy it is to buy safe milk powder… can it be bough online from trusted sources (or such concept does not exist).
Thank you xx
<span style=”font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 22px; text-align: justify;”>Hey Infallible</span>
The question that the embassy and consulte can’t answer to which I suppose is because the law in this area hasn’t fully constructed, kind of grey aera, I assume you can work under your current visa condition as long as you want, however, you can consult your embassy in China also to make sure is there any precedent you can follow
The salary that university offer is certainly not privileged, it isn’t even easy for locals to support fairly big family as you have, I do encourage you to do some re-negotiation prior your arrival, would be harder to do this once you are here
Hope things going fine, even though it wouldn’t be easy
@infallible
You can buy safe baby formula online, typically in the range of around 300rmb/tin, significant enough, depending on how much your baby consumes, to factor into budgeting.I think a large part of the problem is you’re planning on supporting a large family with 1 salary, so even though the salary isn’t too bad, it’s not a lot when considering it needs to support 2 adults and 3 kids without any perks, such as paid housing and/or insurance. I’m surprised the school wouldn’t offer ‘teacher housing’ of sorts, typically at an apartment on or near the university campus. The difficulty with negotiating with a university in this case is because you have greater needs to get by than say, a single person who would be perfectly fine on that salary..and the university may be in the mindset that because your family has larger needs doesn’t mean they should bump the remuneration package. If you’re having to budget all of the above, though, I’d say it will be *tough*, especially when considering all of the little things that make life worth living beyond the core necessities, like getting out of town occasionally and enjoying the restaurants or other fun things around town.
Have you spent any time looking for some work yourself? I suppose it would be difficult with the kids – nannies aren’t cheap, for a single kid now a days they’re averaging around it seems 4k/month, but if I were in your shoes and had to cover all of the living expenses, plus be able to tuck some away incase anything comes up, would seriously consider the challenge and risk involved.
Thank you Sunchen and Rick, that was quite informative!
I am a musician classically trained with Master’s degree, and many years of teaching experience, not sure if Chinese job market would appreciate my skills though, as it seem that they have enough of their own musicians, pianists. I am not UK native, therefore do not meet criterion for English language teacher position. I am fluent in Russian and English and have years and years of translating and interpreting experience… will it help me in job hunting, not sure and can’t predict unless I test the waters myself. Most certainly I will be very unhappy without a job, even if working from home.
After reading various blogs and forums it is clear that trustworthy nanny services come at a price, but 4000 sounds like a hell of a lot.xx
Infallible,
Working is simple. It is illegal without the proper visa. Yes, you would have to leave the country and go through the process again. The Universities and larger training schools will most likely not hire you without the correct visa, and I would suggest not going through any job agency or agent to land that type of job. Unnecessary and they will rip you off, with pay and most other things.
But I assume you would not want a full time job anyway? If not, then the options are simple. You can find a part time job anywhere in CD. There are lots of small schools that will hire you and many that are looking for teachers (check gochengdoo). Teaching English will not be a problem for you, just don’t let them take advantage of you. They are making plenty of money, and as you will see, education is big business here, so make sure you only choose the right circumstance and you can make as much money working part time on your own, than working for a company or school directly, just no benefits.
UHT milk and fresh milk can be found at the grocery stores and all over. Foreign UHT milk as well. Also, one can buy from import stores, we have at least one here in CD, and a couple in Shanghai that will ship here to CD. Formula can be found online, but again, even if one says its from overseas, you can’t be sure. Many comments from Chinese parents that buy online, even from Registered Tmall stores, often remark there is a difference in quality from the product they buy here compared to the product the get sent from overseas (so says my wife).
Simple enough, you can have formula sent from your home country, you can buy online from Amazon, as an example, or from other countries directly from their store. We used to do that when our baby was younger, and we still buy vitamins, supplements and medicines only from overseas.
And regarding your first question re: assistance, if your Uni and FAO (foreign affairs officer) are any good, they should handle all of that for you.
What part of CD will you be in, West (Swufe), South, etc.?
My Chinese girlfriend and I live pretty frugally. I asked her if we could support 3 kids with the salary you mentioned. Her response: “very difficult”. Anyway, good luck with it…..
drjtrekker!
In respect of the area… We are not sure of the area, the stress will be placed on budget, then location (with good transport links), newness, greenish etc. It looks like 3 bed apartment are not easy to find, when the budget is an issue.
I am happy to hear that finding employment in Chengdu is not ‘mission impossible’! Correct me if I am wrong… part-time job does not require working visa, merely residence permit?…if not, what makes part-time job ‘simple’?
We are going to readdress several points of the contract with the university, and I hope we will reach mutually beneficial conclusion. Will update in line with progress.
Thank you as always xx
My Chinese girlfriend and I live pretty frugally. I asked her if we could support 3 kids with the salary you mentioned. Her response: “very difficult”. Anyway, good luck with it…..
Thank you!
I am sure I will benefit from some frugal tips!
I have lived in Chengdu for 10 years and neither the food nor the health service have managed to kill me yet although to be on the safe side I do my own cooking with fresh food. I don’t have healthcare insurance so use the Chinese hospitals.
If you use health insurance then it is common that you need to get clearance from the insurance company before you can start treatment which commonly isn’t convenient. You might well find that costs of initial consultations and diagnosis cannot be backdated as regards payment – check the fine print. If you use the private health care clinics targeting those carrying foreign insurance then bear in mind that they largely use the Chinese hospitals to get access to expensive diagnostic equipment and specialist knowledge. Hopefully they will help you jump queues. Without insurance a consultation costs about £100 for a foreign GP who happens to speak English. Diagnosis involving things like x-rays, blood tests etc will cost extra.
In the Chinese hospitals/clinics the doctors are very much more accessible than those in the UK. English speaking doctors are available but not universally (pays to know some friendly students to act as interpreters). I can typically get to see a GP level doctor after a 20 minute wait if I don’t use the big hospital. The Sichuan University might well have contacts with hospitals who could help you with health care matters.
In the hospitals appointment times for consultations can be as little as 10 minutes to a week (with the Professor (Consultant) of your choice) depending on the level of medical professional and the size of the hospital. It is not uncommon for them to speak English in the large hospitals but, once again, an interpreter is advisable because there is a maze between you and the doctor involving different departments for appointment, payment and consultation. It isn’t going to break the bank to get an appointment – maybe £2.50 to see a GP and about £6 to see a Professor (Consultant). Western medicines are commonly available if you need them and generally don’t break the bank.
I have had surgery on two occasions (successfully and affordably). In the first instance I got a 2 weeks after my diagnosis by Sichuan’s top surgeon in that speciality and the second time was with a smaller hospital where there were beds immediately available.
A lot of concerns about the food’s quality and the pollution these days, but I don’t think that is something as scary as media covers, the overall life expectance has been largely extended compares to the time we don’t have these issues, but good to know that the air in Chengdu both fall and winter is really horrible as you may never expected.
Piano plus English lessons can be taught at the same time would be something quite appealing for local parents, maybe that’s the advantage you have to find the part time jobs.
If I get your message right so your husband is going to earn something about 16,700 CNY monthly gross, what makes it about 15,000 CNY monthly net, correct?
For your children I would not really see a chance to participate in Chinese education system anytime soon because Chinese education requires good knowledge of spoken and especially written Chinese. Considering that your children will have to master 5000+ characters so I doubt it’s manageable in less than 2+ years (provided they study hard every day and are exposed to Chinese environment).
Homeschooling stays thus the only option for first two years as 15,000 CNY monthly will most probably not allow you to send your children into private, English speaking schools.
Generally I would not see a big deal to live from 15,000 CNY monthly provided you will be able to adapt to ‘Chinese’ style of life and will feel happy with that. A lot of Chinese families are living for less and still are quite happy and save some money.
But you need to take into consideration that generally
1) the Chinese apartments standard is much lower than European one; with your requirements for 3 bedrooms apartment, relatively new in the good and easily accessible environment would probably cost you much more than 4000 CNY a month so I guess you will have to compromise a bit. But even the ‘high-end, Western style’ apartments in Chengdu are usually at best questionable quality if measured by EU standards.
2) not speaking Chinese and not knowing the environment will result in certain ‘surcharge’ in comparison to local people at least in the initial period of your stage. Pls note that Chinese is for Europeans not the easiest language to learn and even with intensive courses it may take certain time (rather in years than months) till you reach a conversational fluency. Nevertheless to be able to express yourself in the most common life situations, without requirement to understand your counterpart reply shall it be more complex than simple agreement or disagreement, you shall manage within the first half to one year shall you not give up studying.
3) anything imported from the Western countries is in China relatively expensive
Officially you will not be allowed to work unless you find an employer who will be willing to apply for your work permit or set up your own company in China.
With one child of just 1 year old and homeschooling the other two I doubt you will have enough time for a regular employment unless you employ an assistant taking care of your son (that would costs you something around 3,000 CNY monthly for local, only Chinese speaking person – pls note that you would be in danger that this person speaks just local dialect and not proper Mandarin – proper Mandarin and English speaking nanny would cost you much more than that; but pls keep in mind that many Chinese have a concern to leave a child with a stranger and even though this practice is not rate so there are numerous horror stories about children maltreatment) – but you are still going to be busy with homeschooling of your two other children …
Concerning health insurance I would suggest to deal with Hong Kong based or Chinese insurance companies as the premium shall come much cheaper than if you buy this service in UK. But pls read the contract and conditions carefully because there can be many exclusions you may not feel comfortable with. Also pls note that Chinese health system is generally paid (if I simplify it a bit) and in case of any problem not covered by your insurance you will have to pay in cash (or by bank card provided you have Chinese one).
On top of that it’s more than rare to find an English speaking doctor in Chengdu Chinese hospitals so you will be either cut from any effective communication with the doctor and nurses or will have to rely on the support of your English speaking Chinese friend.
That’s one of the reasons why certain ‘international clinics’ in China are actually no clinics at all but just the ambulances with English speaking doctors (sometimes also foreign doctors) who are then using the background of Chinese hospitals to act as kind of interface between the non Chinese speaking patient and the Chinese clinics. Their services is then subject to minimal fee which is usually exceeding 1000 CNY (any real treatment or medicine coming then on top so it may not be rare to be treated for a bit more serious flu with the bill close to 1,800 CNY – nevertheless on the positive note in case you have a reasonable insurance policy with solid insurance company so this fee would be covered).
Some foreigners in China have a huge trouble to adapt to Chinese environment and some have no trouble at all (in both these categories are those who managed to speak decent Mandarin as well as these who cannot say more than hardly understandable ‘Hello’ in Chinese). Just time will show into which category you will belong but China certainly offers a lot of positive for people arriving with open mind and willing to accept that different is not always better or worse but frequently really can be just different …
Among all these aspects I would really find the airpollution (which is really bad in majority of Chinese cities), problematic food (pls note that buying the fresh ingredients may not help you at all due to the usage of antibiotics and chemistry during the process of foodstuff preparation and to live 100% on imported food – when you also do not know if it’s not the false import – you may not have enough money) and probably inevitable culture shock are of minor importance.
All in all shall you be coming alone with your husband I would say you should not have a big trouble to live relatively decent life (even though absolutely different from your European life but I guess that is a part of your excitement to come to China).
With three children, two of them in the school age and none of them really independent yet, I dare to say that it will be at best challenge …
Hello Infallible, I would suggest that you add to your concerns the food safety and quality.
I agree with this completely, especially when children are a factor. Although to be honest, even if you live in the states or in Europe that’s still a concern because so many food products come from China and regulatory bodies are not up to the task of keeping out toxic items. I’ve been reading a book which goes into some detail on this and it is alarming: Unmade in China
Thank you Charlie, Miro, Sunchen, Merior!
I am grateful for the detailed and unbiased information, and truly appreciate the time you took to write your responses.
Our reason for moving to China is to experience different culture, lifestyle, education…all those experiences that would strengthen understanding of a wider world ( for children)…something that the usual foreign holiday destination won’t cover.
It seem that these experiences will come at a cost…not directed at a posh living, but safer living … such as healthy food, means to deal with air pollution, water, funds to repatriate if the need arises, etc.
I will be looking for ways to boost our income, which sounds promising. There seem to be a development in regards to renegotiation with the university contract which may help with housing costs and/or other help.
I am happy to hear any other positive or negative experiences, although, positive experiences are always easier to digest.
Thank you again xx
Hi Guys!
My husband got another offer from Hebei University,in Baoding. In addition they seem to offer me a job, which is another bonus! The combined salary will be around 20.000 per month after tax.
Do you know anything about cost of living there?
Are any of you familiar with the city or University?
Considering everything, which offer is better to accept?Any information will be gratefully received as always XX
Infallible,
I’m going to give u the only advice you need. Since you are doing this for the “experience”, then take your time and figure out where you want to go in China. Then figure out ALL the details that u need to know about re: that location(s) FIRST.
Then, apply next April-ish for Uni jobs. This way you have about 5 months to get this all figured out and hopefully have a wonderful experience in China.
If you rush into this you may be making a big mistake considering you need to care for your children.
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