Buying Bitcoins in China

[7]

Quote:

Oh, can you give me the link?

Sure, I’ll have to check my history when I get home tonight as I don’t quite remember it.

Also, I saw on Reddit that there is an online store in China that caters to expats and now accepts BTC. http://ijustwannabuy.com

[7]

Quote:

Oh, can you give me the link?

Sure, I’ll have to check my history when I get home tonight as I don’t quite remember it.

Also, I saw on Reddit that there is an online store in China that caters to expats and now accepts BTC. http://ijustwannabuy.com

[Charlie]

Quote:

Funny story, and some of the last lines are the most important: namely the mention of it being a fiat currency. Not only is it a fiat currency, something which you can say the US currency is also, but it’s the purest form: a currency based on absolutely nothing. At least the US currency has a very undercut gold reserve 😀

How do you see currency working in 20, 30, or 40 years? Since the dollar has long been detached from gold, do you see future currency being pinned to physical things? At what point do you think paper money is used less than paperless-transactions? The stock market used to be a representation of what the market expected economic growth to be like in the coming 6 to 18 months, and today that is no longer the case. The only game in town is printing massive amounts of currency and that new liquidity needing to find a place that generates “yields” as the yield curves have been artificially shot by the actions of central bankers. The Federal Reserve is printing $85 billion a month to pay its debts, and it has now become the biggest US debt holder ahead of China. Kind of cool how you can print your own dollars and lend them to yourself without ever having to pay them back. Let’s see how that works out in the long run.

Quote:

There was lots of chatter about bitcoin and gold earlier, which is amusing – since gold is the exact opposite as bitcoins in terms of currency..one is considered the purest/standard form of hard currency, the other, the purest form of a fiat currency.

The comparison with gold is due to the fact that there is a finite supply of Bitcoins which means that a central party cannot manipulate the value of the currency, it is determined by the market. I agree with you about the inherent value of gold and I think it’s smart to invest in that as well as silver.

[Charlie]

Quote:

Funny story, and some of the last lines are the most important: namely the mention of it being a fiat currency. Not only is it a fiat currency, something which you can say the US currency is also, but it’s the purest form: a currency based on absolutely nothing. At least the US currency has a very undercut gold reserve 😀

How do you see currency working in 20, 30, or 40 years? Since the dollar has long been detached from gold, do you see future currency being pinned to physical things? At what point do you think paper money is used less than paperless-transactions? The stock market used to be a representation of what the market expected economic growth to be like in the coming 6 to 18 months, and today that is no longer the case. The only game in town is printing massive amounts of currency and that new liquidity needing to find a place that generates “yields” as the yield curves have been artificially shot by the actions of central bankers. The Federal Reserve is printing $85 billion a month to pay its debts, and it has now become the biggest US debt holder ahead of China. Kind of cool how you can print your own dollars and lend them to yourself without ever having to pay them back. Let’s see how that works out in the long run.

Quote:

There was lots of chatter about bitcoin and gold earlier, which is amusing – since gold is the exact opposite as bitcoins in terms of currency..one is considered the purest/standard form of hard currency, the other, the purest form of a fiat currency.

The comparison with gold is due to the fact that there is a finite supply of Bitcoins which means that a central party cannot manipulate the value of the currency, it is determined by the market. I agree with you about the inherent value of gold and I think it’s smart to invest in that as well as silver.

[Rick in China]

@Charlie

Don’t get me wrong – I find bitcoins extremely interesting. I’ve mined a little in the past and follow the technology – and I also HATE the way currency (namely USD :D) works. I’ve read a lot about lassaiz-fair economics mostly books/articles related to the austrian school of economics (ludwig von mises ish), my best friend basically passes down what he finds interesting material and we discuss..he’s obsessed with getting away from the dollar standard. One of the first was “The Creature From Jekyll Island”, good read if you’re interested in the fed from anti-fed reserve perspectives. That being said, while bitcoins meets a lot of free market economic standards as a functional currency (ie. decentralized, finite, can create very fractioned units for ease of use, etc) I don’t know that it’s the end all by any means..mostly because currency requires buy-in by the markets to actually work. Everything you want to be able to buy needs to be able to be bought. Bitcoins face massive risk if they grow significantly, mostly because govts and banks don’t like society f’ing with their financial control.

Where currency will be in 10, 20, 40 years.. who knows. I’d like to think it will be more _like_ bitcoins, but I don’t see the masses buying into it any time soon. There’s too much unknown about it, there’s no hard-currency backing which is dangerous, and the masses just will not get the technology OR economic theory as to why it’s a good solution..and without the masses, it’s not feasible as a standard.

[Rick in China]

@Charlie

Don’t get me wrong – I find bitcoins extremely interesting. I’ve mined a little in the past and follow the technology – and I also HATE the way currency (namely USD :D) works. I’ve read a lot about lassaiz-fair economics mostly books/articles related to the austrian school of economics (ludwig von mises ish), my best friend basically passes down what he finds interesting material and we discuss..he’s obsessed with getting away from the dollar standard. One of the first was “The Creature From Jekyll Island”, good read if you’re interested in the fed from anti-fed reserve perspectives. That being said, while bitcoins meets a lot of free market economic standards as a functional currency (ie. decentralized, finite, can create very fractioned units for ease of use, etc) I don’t know that it’s the end all by any means..mostly because currency requires buy-in by the markets to actually work. Everything you want to be able to buy needs to be able to be bought. Bitcoins face massive risk if they grow significantly, mostly because govts and banks don’t like society f’ing with their financial control.

Where currency will be in 10, 20, 40 years.. who knows. I’d like to think it will be more _like_ bitcoins, but I don’t see the masses buying into it any time soon. There’s too much unknown about it, there’s no hard-currency backing which is dangerous, and the masses just will not get the technology OR economic theory as to why it’s a good solution..and without the masses, it’s not feasible as a standard.

[7]

I don’t think Bitcoin itself is “the currency of the future”. I think of it sort of like the alpha version of what we will eventually move to.

In the meantime, I’m interested in it in sort of a speculative/hobbyist sort of way. I finally managed to buy 1 just as sort of a novelty/lottery ticket. Since I’m into computers anyway, I might try mining just for the heck of it.

[7]

I don’t think Bitcoin itself is “the currency of the future”. I think of it sort of like the alpha version of what we will eventually move to.

In the meantime, I’m interested in it in sort of a speculative/hobbyist sort of way. I finally managed to buy 1 just as sort of a novelty/lottery ticket. Since I’m into computers anyway, I might try mining just for the heck of it.

[Rick in China]

Then there’s bad press like this:

Virtual Bitcoin Mining Is a Real-World Environmental Disaster

[Rick in China]

Then there’s bad press like this:

Virtual Bitcoin Mining Is a Real-World Environmental Disaster

[Charlie]

Quote:

I don’t think Bitcoin itself is “the currency of the future”. I think of it sort of like the alpha version of what we will eventually move to.

This is how I feel about it also. It is the hope for a different financial future, and it is inherently adventurous and risky. It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out. I have invested a small amount and am learning a lot about finance and technology through watching the bitcoin story develop.

Quote:

Then there’s bad press like this:

Virtual Bitcoin Mining Is a Real-World Environmental Disaster

I read that article also and read a fascinating counter point immediately afterward which puts the claim of this “natural disaster” into perspective:

“Mining Engineer here. I just did a rough calculation to give this a sense of scale:

In the past 24 hous, my operation has used 53,382 liters of diesel fuel for its hauling fleet of 31 trucks. The kWh equivalent of this fuel burn is 572,373 kWh. The energy used in BitCoin mining (at the quoted price of $0.15 per kWh) is 980,000 kWh.

This single mine uses 58% of the energy that global BitCoin mining currently uses. For its HAULING fleet. That doesn’t included the drills, explosives energy, processing energy (which is substantial, I assure you.) nor does it include the cost of the diesel fuel for the 4 locomotives to take the material to the port. For this one, single, lowly mining operation.”

[Charlie]

Quote:

I don’t think Bitcoin itself is “the currency of the future”. I think of it sort of like the alpha version of what we will eventually move to.

This is how I feel about it also. It is the hope for a different financial future, and it is inherently adventurous and risky. It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out. I have invested a small amount and am learning a lot about finance and technology through watching the bitcoin story develop.

Quote:

Then there’s bad press like this:

Virtual Bitcoin Mining Is a Real-World Environmental Disaster

I read that article also and read a fascinating counter point immediately afterward which puts the claim of this “natural disaster” into perspective:

“Mining Engineer here. I just did a rough calculation to give this a sense of scale:

In the past 24 hous, my operation has used 53,382 liters of diesel fuel for its hauling fleet of 31 trucks. The kWh equivalent of this fuel burn is 572,373 kWh. The energy used in BitCoin mining (at the quoted price of $0.15 per kWh) is 980,000 kWh.

This single mine uses 58% of the energy that global BitCoin mining currently uses. For its HAULING fleet. That doesn’t included the drills, explosives energy, processing energy (which is substantial, I assure you.) nor does it include the cost of the diesel fuel for the 4 locomotives to take the material to the port. For this one, single, lowly mining operation.”

[Nele]

Quote:

sorry to gravedig here but i couldn’t resist sharing this…

That was the website that hosted a fake graph about where the bitcoin value dropped (it was considerably lower than the true value).. an attempt to manipulate, Im sure

The link is here: Winklevoss Twins Revealed As Owning 1% Of All BitCoins

[Nele]

Quote:

sorry to gravedig here but i couldn’t resist sharing this…

That was the website that hosted a fake graph about where the bitcoin value dropped (it was considerably lower than the true value).. an attempt to manipulate, Im sure

The link is here: Winklevoss Twins Revealed As Owning 1% Of All BitCoins

[Margus]

Guys, there seems an endless argument here between supporters and non-supporters. In fact, its a comedy how we try to counter each other and be suddenly “economists”:D

In fact it is pretty easy to have a good grasp of the core of economics and finance. I believe most of us should have the responsiblity to understand this inevitable factor that affects the quality of our lives.

So, lets try to make it very easy. Who ever feels like having enough interest in the prospect of BTC and how and why it can be part of the solutions to the contemporary failed economic models, please, invest an hour to watch this:

Money as Debt III: Evolution Beyond Money

This provides a comprehensive overview over the current banking system and possible solutions. It concludes the two previous episodes. It is one of the best I’ve personally seen. I’ve watched it over and over again.

Thus, sit back and enjoy the easy watch. Please feel free to comment and raise reasonable questions after you’ve seen it.

Also, a good podcast about BTC pros and cons can be found here (20 min): The New Renaissance: How #Bitcoin Millionaires will Change the World

[Margus]

Guys, there seems an endless argument here between supporters and non-supporters. In fact, its a comedy how we try to counter each other and be suddenly “economists”:D

In fact it is pretty easy to have a good grasp of the core of economics and finance. I believe most of us should have the responsiblity to understand this inevitable factor that affects the quality of our lives.

So, lets try to make it very easy. Who ever feels like having enough interest in the prospect of BTC and how and why it can be part of the solutions to the contemporary failed economic models, please, invest an hour to watch this:

Money as Debt III: Evolution Beyond Money

This provides a comprehensive overview over the current banking system and possible solutions. It concludes the two previous episodes. It is one of the best I’ve personally seen. I’ve watched it over and over again.

Thus, sit back and enjoy the easy watch. Please feel free to comment and raise reasonable questions after you’ve seen it.

Also, a good podcast about BTC pros and cons can be found here (20 min): The New Renaissance: How #Bitcoin Millionaires will Change the World

[Charlie]

Quote:

Guys, there seems an endless argument here between supporters and non-supporters. In fact, its a comedy how we try to counter each other and be suddenly “economists”:D

Through debate we reveal the holes in each others positions – nothing personal, just a discussion of the prospect of bitcoin gaining trust and value.

Quote:

Also, a good podcast about BTC pros and cons can be found here (20 min): The New Renaissance: How #Bitcoin Millionaires will Change the World

I’m downloading this now and will check out that Youtube video tonight, thanks Margus.

[Charlie]

Quote:

Guys, there seems an endless argument here between supporters and non-supporters. In fact, its a comedy how we try to counter each other and be suddenly “economists”:D

Through debate we reveal the holes in each others positions – nothing personal, just a discussion of the prospect of bitcoin gaining trust and value.

Quote:

Also, a good podcast about BTC pros and cons can be found here (20 min): The New Renaissance: How #Bitcoin Millionaires will Change the World

I’m downloading this now and will check out that Youtube video tonight, thanks Margus.

[Rick in China]

@Margus

Quote:

its a comedy how we try to counter each other and be suddenly “economists”

That post is a pretty comedic and condescending presumption, maybe a little hypocrisy thrown in 😀

[Rick in China]

@Margus

Quote:

its a comedy how we try to counter each other and be suddenly “economists”

That post is a pretty comedic and condescending presumption, maybe a little hypocrisy thrown in 😀

[Author]

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