ESP and Collective Conscious Aren't Fairy Tales

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  • #47211
    Avatar photo897934-884
    Participant

    Brought over from Johny5’s “let’s talk about the future” thread.

    I was just trying to explain that modern technology has run its course and can’t really provide anything meaningful anymore. Some people enthusiastically welcome chip implants in their brain. Some don’t. ESP and the collective conscious are things that may or may not exist, but I believe they are far preferable to any implant or cell phone. The human mind is far more dynamic than a silicone chip. Man vs. computer at chess?
    In the words of Mike Myers… Discuss!

    #47212
    Avatar photoRick in China
    Participant

    Really surprised you made the thread, was a little rhetorical just to prevent hijacking the other..however, love the topic personally, so lets engage:

    I don’t believe ESP or any ‘extended consciousness’ beyond what we’re experiencing now has ever existed. There is no evidence, beyond anecdotal evidence (akin to “Aliens took my brother from the desert) to support it. Our brains are extremely elastic and very capable, surely capable of far more than any living humans are utilizing them for now – and will most definitely evolve way, way, way down the road to become more than we can comprehend now…however:

    I think it’s far more likely we invent or discover (scientific advancement) methods for artificially manipulating said utilization far sooner than is naturally just ‘evolved’, evidenced by looking at the advancement of the human brain or on a more macro scale brains in general over the course of history compared to the bell curve that demonstrates advancement of technology and genetics/cybernetics in the more modern age.

    I think that to say “modern technology has run its course” is simply repeating what naysayers have been saying repeatedly over the last couple centuries, pre-flight for example, where any dreamers with such “insane goals” as lifting a human into the air through a contraption, were smashed down as being charlatans or insane people..and rather, since we haven’t seen a halt in any way whatsoever in terms of technological advancement in any recent year, would go the route that: since it hasn’t stopped yet, and every naysayer has been proven wrong repeatedly, it’s ludicrous to presumptively say that advancement will suddenly end and we simply know all we’ll know for any practical purposes. I can’t even fathom how that’s a valid argument in today’s age.

    Simple example that’s happening now: vehicles that run on electricity stored in batteries which can be charged via the natural sunlight. ‘Free’ energy until the sun dies (or we die)? Impossible?

    #47218
    Avatar photoGaijin
    Participant

    I figure ESP exists, but only on a very low level. I don’t believe it has ever existed on any kind of high level.

    Collective consciousness on the other hand has already begun with the internet, and it’s only going to increase. The internet has really only come into the mainstream in the past 20 years. I remember the launch of Windows ’95, and all of a sudden people were connecting to ‘The World Wide Web’. I didn’t even understand what this was, and I had no idea it would mean we could share cat pictures with people in different cultures all over the world.

    Not that you’d want to of course.

    Anyways, to continue on to the point of collective consciouness, let’s consider how technology advances. I’ll give an example of my own work, as it’s something I can explain well. My company does web development. We build online systems for clients, that do what the client wants.

    Often, we will have to connect to another system to retrieve or send data. When we get a request like this, the first thing we do is a ‘proof of concept’. This is initial research, to prove that it can actually be done (so we know whether or not we should take the job). This proof of concept is the most bare-bones of actions. We simply put together enough code to make a remote connection to the other system, and test whether or not that system accepts our data, and returns data we can understand. At this point, we have proved (or disproved) the concept. The code we have created in itself isn’t really usable – it comes back as a data stream that is not human friendly or usable. But we know that we can then proceed.

    The next step is to then fill in all the blanks. We create a user interface so that humans can trigger this action through a human-friendly interface. An example is a ‘like’ button on a non-facebook website. The user just sees a button they push, and knows that this ‘like’ will show up on their facebook account. In the background however, the site they are looking at has built a system to output that button, and link it to facebook, and then send the data to facebook when that button is pushed. It all ends up in a nice friendly interface, with popups, and abilities to add comments etc. Over time, the interface is cleaned up, and facebook makes it easier to integrate for site developers etc. The more time goes by, the nicer it is.

    How this relates to collective consciousness is that we have already proven the concept, by creating the internet. We now know that we can have a ‘world wide web’ that allows us to connect to each other. After making that proof of concept, we then started to build on it – more servers in more places, with more computers for more people to connect.

    The next steps over time will be to improve our methods of connecting. Likely, we will move to neural implants at some point, were we have technology implanted or somehow integrated directly with our neural processes. We have already begun work on this with voice-activated technology, things like Google Glass, and Siri on the iphone.

    Once we have proven the concept of being able to neurally interface with technology, we will then improve upon that. Right now, our technology is generally metal, plastic and silicon based. That is because at our current technological level, we are limited to this. But it’s not far fetched to expect that over time we will be able to change our materials to organic/biological materials. We will start to build technology that is not integrated with us, but rather IS us. At that point, we can switch to interfacing with the internet using chips and processors, and instead will use biological means. At this point, we will have true collective consciousness, as we will simply manipulate our bodies and our minds, rather than integrating external devices.

    The concept is already there, we’ve shown it with the internet. Now all we need to do is clean up the interface, and the user experience.

    #47219
    Avatar photoRick in China
    Participant

    The concept is already there, we’ve shown it with the internet.

    That’s all right – Gaijin, but your post I think belongs more in the other thread about technology/future, I believe the whole point of 897934-884’s post was to imply that we don’t need technology to have these superpowers and they are inherently within our grasp.

    #47222
    Avatar photoCharlie
    Keymaster

    Brought over from Johny5’s “let’s talk about the future” thread. I was just trying to explain that modern technology has run its course and can’t really provide anything meaningful anymore.

    I don’t think you have explained how modern technology has run its course, or what that even means. As we can see all around us, technological advancement doesn’t just continue, but advances at an ever-accelerated pace.

    ESP and the collective conscious are things that may or may not exist, but I believe they are far preferable to any implant or cell phone. The human mind is far more dynamic than a silicone chip.

    Although Jean Grey’s power of telekinesis is really cool, I think I might opt for the power of other X-Men characters like Storm or Wolverine. Having adamantium-infused bones and being a threadbare badass is neat, but being able to control the weather like Storm doesn’t seem to have any downsides, so that’s probably what I would choose.

    #47225
    Avatar photo897934-884
    Participant

    I don’t really like hypotheticals, but I’ll posit one here.

    So you get a time machine and go back to any unenlightened era (or enlightened, doesn’t matter). And you’re able to communicate with those people and you ask them if they are living in misery without internet, space travel, penicillin, jet skis… etc. What would they say?

    They probably would have no idea what you’re talking about. But if you explained those things, they’d probably just say ‘whatever’. You get the same response if you go to a tiny village in X country and try to tell them about the wonders of our fantastic urban paradises.

    People today tell me about going to mars or curing cancer, and I ask why? I’ll never willingly leave planet earth and cancer is just another form of death, like car accidents, falling pianos and suicide.

    I’ve been quite the naysayer recently. I’m well aware of that. Perhaps it’s burnout in China. This country demonstrates tremendous progression like no other, but when does a measure of restraint kick in? When will it ever be enough? When will balance be appreciated, not game-face aggression toward the entire universe?

    I can’t swing back to make this post relevant with ESP and collective (un)conscious, but there is a reality out there, not purveyed via digital interfaces.

    Rick, you’ve got a very strong argument for maintaining the course. Thanks for the discussion ;p

    #47227
    Avatar photoRick in China
    Participant

    So you get a time machine and go back to any unenlightened era ….. and you ask them if they are living in misery without internet, space travel, penicillin, jet skis

    Do you think that people in past eras were living in happiness? From what I can glean, throughout human history, there have been repeated periods of plagues, oppression, war, and general misery. Across civilizations, people have been forced into a particular life they’ve been born into – whether it be slavery or royalty (mass majority obviously on one side, not the other)..without any hope or opportunity whatsoever of breaking the mold. Throughout history, plagues have wiped out entire populations of people because simple medicines were not available – and people did not have the knowledge to treat, disinfect, or otherwise acknowledge and isolate said plagues (10 people are all sick over there, must be witches!). People have been corralled and controlled based on superstition or make-believe far out of their own control, living essentially helpless mechanical lives prone to the whims of whatever power has murdered and raped their way into power during the constant shifts in rulerships. People, on average, rarely lived past what we consider middle-aged, so had to marry young and produce as many offspring as they could, because it was likely many would die – and they had to carry on civilization for reasons they certainly didn’t understand beyond whatever ‘scripture’ they were born into stated.

    Wonderful life ‘back in the day’, sure, if you know nothing other than misery I’m sure everything seemed wonderful!

    With all this happiness, where was the ESP and collective conscious exactly? Maybe Spartacus used collective conscious to plot his uprising. 😀

    #47229
    Avatar photo897934-884
    Participant

    There have been plenty of peaceful times throughout history. We look at history through a lens of “we’re badass, they weren’t”. Look at the native americans before Europe arrived, or several dynasties in China for that matter. Look at the Renaissance. Compare that with Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria or druglord Mexico today. Which would you prefer?

    #47230
    Avatar photo897934-884
    Participant

    or look at a minimum wage wal-mart worker in okeepenokee florida or something. Serious misery going on in some parts…

    #47232
    Avatar photoRick in China
    Participant

    Look at the native americans before Europe arrived, or several dynasties in China for that matter.

    WHAT? WHAT? WHAT? WHAT? WHAT?

    Rose coloured glasses if I’ve ever heard. Is this trolling or are you serious? Or perhaps just not entirely educated on the topics you’re referencing…

    #47234
    Avatar photo897934-884
    Participant

    ??? and the Wal-mart worker? Do you not understand what goes on in the world today? Have you traveled? Have you talked to anyone? Rape, murder, blackmail, exploitation? All alive and well. Technology has nothing to do with it, except maybe made it all easier. Humans will always be humans. Iphones and phoney pharmaceuticals have only been to assuage the ego of those creating and benefiting. I repeat, not impressed.

    Let me guess, you’re going to tell me about how Native Americans warred constantly and ancient China ripped itself apart. And that doesn’t happen anymore, right? I have an idea, let’s build a spaceship and go to another land to fuck it up as much as we’ve fucked up our own.

    #47236
    Avatar photoRick in China
    Participant

    Let me guess, you’re going to tell me about how Native Americans warred constantly and ancient China ripped itself apart

    They did, and they did, repeatedly. Hence the repeated changes in power across land masses. If you think all the tragedies you see today in the news media — rampant rape, murder, blackmail, and exploitation are prevalent today… I’ve news for you mate: they’re not news, that’s how life has been lived since the birth of humanity. You just hear about it more now, why? Because of technology. I’d argue in fact, that all of the above happens LESS now than ever, probably, because of technology.

    Not to be presumptive….well, no, wait, to be entirely presumptive, you strike me as a super-depressive ‘goth’ (for the lack of a better word, in my youth back home that’s the term that comes to mind) that sees only the worst in humanity as a whole, takes advantage of all of the advances we’ve accomplished as a species, yet rants about how terrible we have, as a species, made everything. It’s like the kid who shits the bed on purpose at summer camp and cries daily about how everyone is so mean and how life is unfair. Forgive me if I’m wrong, just saying — the view you’re presenting is absolutely ignorant of the fact that life, on whole, is far better – absolutely and objectively – because of technological advances humans have made over the years. It’s not all about iPhones or Jordans (wtf, Jordans are a technological advancement? Really?)…… it’s about curing illness and alleviating things EVERY human deems as being a discomfort or problem, and there is no argument that any of our (culturally distinct) ancestors had the option to alleviate said grievances but would absolutely 100% opt towards getting rid of the problems we’ve gotten rid of today BECAUSE of technology.

    You’re sucking up the advantages and still bitching. Are you an American by chance? No jab intended, just a question, please indulge 🙂

    #47240
    Avatar photoCharlie
    Keymaster

    I don’t really like hypotheticals, but I’ll posit one here. So you get a time machine and go back to any unenlightened era (or enlightened, doesn’t matter). And you’re able to communicate with those people and you ask them if they are living in misery without internet, space travel, penicillin, jet skis… etc. What would they say? They probably would have no idea what you’re talking about. But if you explained those things, they’d probably just say ‘whatever’.

    I am highly doubtful they would say “whatever” when you exit your time machine and explain that in our world we have:

    • All of the information in the world accessible anywhere, at any time
    • We can travel anywhere on planet earth, within 24 hours
    • You can speak to anyone on the planet, at any time, from anywhere
    • If something goes wrong with your heart, we can swap it with another and you’ll be okay. The same goes for your brain.
    • The ability to have as many children as we want without the need to have children. If you have a lot of children, they will all survive infancy
    • Drink clean water and eat food whenever you want. Different types of food are actually competing for your attention and hoping that you will choose them.
    • etc, this list can go on forever

    This country demonstrates tremendous progression like no other, but when does a measure of restraint kick in? When will it ever be enough?

    It will never be enough. That’s the point: perpetual expansion and progress. Spreading our genes further and further. It is our biological imperative.

    There have been plenty of peaceful times throughout history. We look at history through a lens of “we’re badass, they weren’t”. Look at the native americans before Europe arrived, or several dynasties in China for that matter. Look at the Renaissance. Compare that with Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria or druglord Mexico today. Which would you prefer?

    The most peaceful time in human history is this one. Right now. There has never been more prosperity on earth, and so little death and misery. One BILLION people have been taken out of poverty in the last 20 years. You will probably say “Whatever, it doesn’t matter” but trust me, to people living in poverty who aren’t privileged enough to debate this on the internet, it’s a big deal.

    Look at the native americans before Europe arrived, or several dynasties in China for that matter. Look at the Renaissance. Compare that with Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria or druglord Mexico today. Which would you prefer?

    During the Renaissance Vlad Dracula decorated pikes with the heads of his enemies and grotesquely killed 100k people. England murdered another 100k people in an argument over who should be king. Venice and everything East of it spent a century fighting the Ottoman empire. There was a superstitious genocide which led to hundreds of thousands of people being labeled witches and sentenced to death. Without the technology that we have now, killing thousands of people was a lot slower and more gruesome in the past. The history of humans is absolutely one of struggle and brutality on a scale that we, people of modern society, can hardly comprehend.

    #47255
    Avatar photoFrankie
    Participant

    Lol 897 bla bla bla

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