Help! Seeking Advice on Employer Contracts

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  • This topic has 26 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 8 years ago by Avatar photoMaz.
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  • #46006
    Avatar photolexibecks
    Participant

    hello,

    I’ve been with this company that places English teachers in schools, for little over two months now. not a long time i know.

    I just really need someones insight on this topic, I’ve had a lot of issues with them since i got here, but this one i have no idea what to do about.

    it involves my contract. I have been asking to see and get a hard copy of it, seeing as i only have an email version. But the lady i work for keeps evading me. When i finally saw her two days ago she gave me a blank copy and a pen, asking me to sign the contract, stating that they need to get it stamped. I am confused by this, because i thought they had a hard copy?

    turns out they only have an electronic one. I’ve asked her for it and today she finally sent it after a few days of waiting and continuously asking for it.

    she only forwarded the copy of the contract i had sent her , so it only has my signature on it. no one else’s. I’ve already decided to break contract due to all their breaching on a few things. I’ve been told that its just the way the Chinese work. But this has become so stressful its just not worth staying with them til January.

    So my question is, do they have a legal binding contract? if so, how do i go about with telling them i will no longer work til full term? i understand i must hand in a written letter plus a meeting before we either take this to court or we negotiate, but i’m not sure how or who to contact.

    Please any help or advice, even past experiences will help.

    #46008
    Avatar photoDeven
    Participant

    I’ve never been in this specific situation before, but contracts in China are often very tricky/not legit. Did they provide you a work visa? Or a student one?

    #46011
    Avatar photoCharlie
    Keymaster

    If you signed the contract, it is potentially binding. But contracts are routinely broken, ignored, and dismissed in China by companies who do not have the influence or legal wherewithal to pursue litigation. You will probably be okay just leaving, but it depends on the company that you are dealing with. This kind of nonsense is quite common in China.

    #46013
    Avatar photoWoodWERD
    Participant

    I wouldn’t say it’s unusual to sign another contract when you get here. Were the terms different or was it just the missing signatures? Who knows what happened to the one they gave you/you sent them, but not really important unless they’re blatantly changing things. Chances are it was simply lost or misplaced, but it sounds like there may be other red flags here. I believe they have to give the PSB the signed/counter signed contract when they apply for your visa, so I’d say that’s the bigger question as mentioned above.

    #46016
    Avatar photoMaz
    Participant

    Hey there,

    Before coming to China I signed on many documents and statements including a government contract and my contract with my agent (employer), which I then scanned and emailed over for obtaining work visa purposes and the Foreign Expert Certificate.

    Once I was over here, I was given 2 hard copies of my contract with my agent in the company office. I read through them, signed each one, she signed and stamped both documents. I kept one and they kept one.

    As for quitting, I did that last month and didn’t need to give a written letter, but you will need your employer to give you a reference letter and a release letter in order to move on to another employer. This again is needed for Foreign Expert Card renewal, visa and so on.

    #46017
    Avatar photo897934-884
    Participant

    Sounds like Sunny’s English and their ilk are up to their old antics as usual!   First, tell them that no genuine hard-copy of the contract in your hand means no contract at all.  Goodbye!  No month-notice, no discussion.  Goodbye.

    Like Deven asked,  what visa are you on?   If you’ve already got a work permit (highly unlikely) then things will be difficult when trying to get a new job.   Plus, you will be linked through the school to the PSB and the school could probably report you on it.

    Tourist or Student visa would mean that you’re not even “legal” to work anyways and are free to walk away and find something else.

     

     

     

    #46021
    Avatar photolexibecks
    Participant

    Hey guys,

    Thanks so much for the replies.

    I’m here on a Z visa, and I have just received my residency. The company sent me their electronic version of the copy after I pointed out that they had just forwarded my email I had sent them and this shows no proof of them actually signing and agreeing to the terms. Eventually after must persistence , they sent me a copy with both signatures and the stamps.

    I’m still not happy with them though. When I 1st got here no one from the company came to the airport. Luckily I had 2 friends here who knew I was coming and picked me up. I stayed with them for 2 days before I was shipped off to a school in Yibin. This might have been my fault. But they had asked me to pack my bags and get ready for an interview. They said I’d be interviewed by a school and then they’ll take me to where I’d be staying for the week. It was mentioned I’d be teaching kindergarten but nothing of the location being so far out. I was brand new here so I didn’t know what was actually going on until I was at a bus station. I was really upset about this and they couldn’t understand why.

    Also they’ve been really slow with everything of mine. When I got back they didn’t have an apartment for me. My friends who also work for them invited me to stay with them until the company had an apartment for me. That took about 2 weeks excluding the week I was shipped off outside of Chengdu. When I argued about this they tried to say my friends house was a stop for other teachers.

    Then there was the bank account, I’ve been here for 2 months and only got my bank account (with help of a Chinese friend) last week. The company had my passport since I got to Chengdu after I’d done my medical and used the excuse of needing to do my residency to get it. It was only after I had mentioned that they aren’t doing their jobs and have broken contract with me, that they gave it back.

    Last one, I got really sick in the 1st month and the company is meant to provide us with the proper care by taking us to a doctor who practices western medicine. They refused to take me stating that while I’m in bed if I don’t get a doctors note, I pay the penalty of 100rmb per a class missed. I asked to be taken but I was given a reply of ” you can find a medicare. They are very common here, just phone me when you find one and I’ll talk to the lady/man”. I thought this was normal until while speaking to another teacher I was informed that it was completely unacceptable. They had to send someone to take you to a proper doctor. So I finally got them to send someone and I asked for a doctor, but the lady refused and took me to a medicare instead. Saying this is just as good. When I asked if money would still be deducted because I am sick but medicares don’t give out doctor notes, she simply said I’ll ask. Which I’ve come to learn is never a good thing and basically you’ll be repeatedly asking her to ask the company for a while.

    I got told these are all petty, common things that everyone gets, here in China and that I don’t have anything to really terminate the contract on.

    Is this true? Or am I just being a huge sore loser?

    Any insight would be welcome.

    #46022
    Avatar photoMaz
    Participant

    No, no, no, no! This sounds like the worst China teaching nightmare ever!

    Frustrating things such as delays and lack of clarity happen in China, but not so extreme as in your case. If you are unhappy with the work conditions at this company then just inform them you want to terminate the contract based on that reason. Check in the contract for termination conditions. They violated standard rule number one, airport pick up! Then they didn’t provide you with a place to stay! In my contract if either parties breaks their end of the agreement there is a 4,000 RMB fine!

    Would you like to name and shame this “training centre” / company / agency?

    Quit and demand a release letter. They have nothing to lose, they just won’t pay you any benefits such as airline ticket reimbursement, if that is in your contract to be paid to you at the end.

    #46024
    Avatar photoFrankie
    Participant

    Hey Lexi I see you having some issues. Its Frankie, give me a call on 182 2440 4473 or just add me on wechat and ill help you out. Also which company did you sign with?

    #46039
    Avatar photolexibecks
    Participant

    Hey add me on we chat lexibecks.

    #46115
    Avatar photoSilviaT
    Participant

     

    I am very sorry to hear about your issues. I am also having some troubles with the company, but at least people here where I am are very nice and supportive.

    In fact, I have a question and would very much appreciate if somebody could help me with and advice/suggestion, etc…

    I have been in China for almost two months, teaching English in kindergartens. I work at 5 (yes – five) locations and I have a real issue with the schedule and trying to figure out if there are other kindergarten teachers in a similar situation – because I feel like this is very wrong.

    So, I have a curriculum, a teaching plan provided by the company and according to that teaching plan, I would have to teach the same classes 5 days per week. I have in total 27 classes in 5 kindergartens, and I see each class only once per week for 15 to 30 minutes (depending on the level).

    I was hired by a company and I have the contract with them, so another problem is that any time I try to solve these issues, I can not get directly to the management of the kindergartens because they look at me as I am from another planet and the company keeps saying that the schedule will settle down at some point (after two months being here I can say that this will never happen).

    The company provided me with the curriculum and weekly teaching plan and they provided the same materials to each of the five kindergartens.

    The Chinese teachers have a weekly plan with the program that has to be taught in five days, but I am actually only one day with each class. Now, it looks that I can provide only 20% from the 100% required material and this is very difficult. I am trying to give more material in one lesson but teachers get upset that it is too much, if I do only what I am suppose to do for one day, I would have to ignore 80% of the material.

    I feel like they use me only for advertising purposes, teaching being only a secondary element in this case.

    I want to write a serious letter to the company, but before I do it, I would like to have some other opinions from kindergarten teachers/employers.

    Thank you in advance for your time and consideration.

    Silvia

     

    #46117
    Avatar photoDeven
    Participant

    @SilviaT I haven’t taught Kindergarten in China, but I did teach University for two years and have some other teaching experience. Your current schedule sounds terrible, but what stood out to me was your comment about being “advertising”.

    From my experience, this is what most foreign teachers are. What I really disliked about teaching in China is how little anyone cared about the quality of my teaching etc. As long as I was foreign, nothing else mattered.

    If you have real interest in teaching, I would take your time to look around and find other schools/situations that are better than your current one. If you’re using teaching as a way to survive here (like a lot of us), I would honestly devote as little effort to it as possible, and spend your free time either looking for other employment opportunities, studying Chinese, or whatever else you have interest in in China.

    I know that sounds bad, but from my experience, as long as you’re on time for class and your students are entertained, you will NEVER be fired. My first few months, I was very diligent preparing lessons, but after a while I just tried to make my lessons as fun as possible and didn’t even use the books or assigned material.

    Again, all this is my opinion and I don’t know your situation, but teaching English here is not worth getting stressed out over, because the rewards for being a “good” teacher are very minimal.

    #46118
    Avatar photoSilviaT
    Participant

    Thank you Deven,

    You are right about “advertising” – and I don’t really mind it. I am very positive and trying to do my best, but the problem is that all the teachers from those 5 kindergarten have received some kind of training from the company and they have all the weekly plans and they just don’t get that those weekly plans are for a normal situation – meaning that the foreign teacher will have 5 days per week with each class. And in the kindergarten, every class has a leader teacher and few other teachers. So, every teacher comes with some suggestions, and I have to deal with the suggestions of at least 27 teachers per week.

    But on a daily basis, I am enjoying classes and from my perspective I am doing just fine and I have a lot of fun with these kids, but here come some of their teachers holding the stupid weekly plan that is irrelevant to the situation. :)))

    So, I am mostly interested to know if other kindergarten teachers had to go through a similar situation regarding the schedule. Because I really think this is doesn’t sound right in any way.

    And I am not at all stressed out to be fired. At least not yet :)))))

    Thanks a lot for your reply.

    #46133
    Avatar photoMiro630
    Participant

    Hello,

    I am now a bit confused. Is that just a rant or are you looking for information?

    In later case so let me state following:

    1) To get Z visa there must be an employment contract (in Chinese or bilingual with Chinese version to be the decisive one) and this contract had to be presented to authorities

    2) It may be to certain extent common in China to work (at least for some period of time) without contract however it’s illegal activity and if reported so company is due to pay double monthly salary for each month the person worked without contract. In case of foreigners this is then very uncommon as for foreigner it would mean no working visa (you cannot get Z visa and later RP without presenting employment contract) and thus deportation.

    As you say you have Z visa so there has to be a contract you signed (or somebody signed ‘on your behalf’) which served as a document based on which you received your Z visa and later RP.

    This contract shall then stipulate all the conditions the company and you agreed to (pls note that in case of Chinese and English version discrepancy it’s Chinese version which is valid).

    As you have Chinese employment contract so this contract is governed by China labor code.

    I doubt there is any penalty clause incorporated in your contract.

    If there is none so China labor law basically does not allow employer to fine employee unless special case of willful acts against employer interests etc. – generally employer has no legal way how to fine the employee. BUT – fining the employees in China is common practice (for late coming to work etc.).

    What concerns of being ill so it’s the same all over the world – no doctor notice, no illness unless the company is benevolent and accepts your apology.

    If your contract does not explicitly defines what kind of assistance you get in case illness all depends on your insurance.

    If you have good medical insurance so you may visit Global Doctors who will either have foreign doctors or at least English speaking staff.

    But the price will be 1000-2000 CNY for the thing which in the Chinese hospital will cost you 100-200 CNY and the treatment will be usually more professional (but usually no English).

     

    In any case (and especially if your insurance would not cover this fully) so I would recommend following:

    1) In case you do not speak Chinese so my recommendation would be in case of not so serious problems to ask your Chinese speaking friend to take you to the hospital (better is smaller/’worse’ one as you do not have to wait there and all will be arranged smoothly – the doctors there also know quite well what to do and as long as your problem is not serious they will do the basic check out and provide the medicine).

    2) In case of serious problems so go to one of the big/’famous’ Chinese hospital – again the best is with Chinese speaking friend and get the proper treatment there – but pls get ready to a bit crowded and ‘competitive’ environment.

    What then concerns of you employment contract cancellation so that is of course possible and in China the labor code stipulates 1 month notice period.

    But the situation is a bit complicated for you because if you have no work so you have 30 days to leave China.

    If you want to stay in China so the best way would be to find a new employer, agree on the terms and conditions and then ask for the RP transfer.

    That should be manageable.

    But just on the personal note. I suggest you think twice about your current situation. Of course there is the option that your current employer is simply bad. But reading your post I got the feeling you are not in China for a long time and you have certain ‘respect’ from surrounding environment.

    I find nothing wrong that nobody picked you up at the airport. It’s of course much more pleasant to have somebody to guide you especially if this is your first time coming to China but generally I would assume that a person applying for a job in China shall be able to arrange such things on his/her own.

    Anyway you committed yourself to life and work in China so I do not find so unjustified for your employer to assume you shall be able (and mainly willing) to handle the most normal life requirements independently.

    But as mentioned above – pls check your valid contract for the details and then have a reasonable discussion with your employer.

    Current demand for English teachers in China is big so I would not suspect them from ill intentions straight from the beginning.

    #46137
    Avatar photoMiro630
    Participant

    Dear Silvia,

    Let me put forward my opinion.

    1) Unless the kindergarten would be oriented at full time English environment so I see little chance for a person who does not speak good Chinese to teach small children efficiently (what I mean having lessons like one hour per day or so)

    2) The benefit of native speakers is quite clear for advanced English classes but their value (if they do not speak local language) for beginners and lower intermediate classes are to certain extent questionable.

    You shall understand that foreigners are relatively rare in China (especially in inland cities) and the schools are trying to use them for advertising purposes.

    Teaching English, especially with use of native speakers, is a big business in China. People are willing to pay huge money for their children (or their own) English language abilities improvement.

    But as for Chinese is equally difficult to learn English as is for Westerners to learn Chinese so majority will not succeed fully. IN that sense majority of schools are then orienting more at the impression rather than results which would come only years later.

    For me personally it’s a bit sad situation. Especially when seeing people earning 5-6,000 CNY monthly who spend huge part of their income for English lessons which can hardly bring any big achievement (and certainly not the result comparable with the investment).

    But coming to your case – I would bet that your job, seeing from your employer perspective, is more the marketing rather than real teaching. Nothing wrong with that as long as you can accept that.

    If not so I suggest to go for employer providing advanced English classes or for the fully English immersed kindergartens.

    #46152
    Avatar photoSilviaT
    Participant

    Thank you Miro for your opinion.

    You are right, probably I don’t feel yet comfortable to know that teaching is not the right word in this case 🙂

    Now I am just concerned with the fact that they give you a weekly plan (designed for 5 days per week) but you get only 15 to 30 minutes per week. And the Chinese teacher have the teaching plan provided by the company, but it’s difficult to make them understand that in fact, in the situation created at the moment, I get to teach only 20% from what’s in it, and they have to do the 80% (which is of course impossible and ridiculous) 🙂
    Thanks again!
    Silvia

    #46155
    Avatar photoSilviaT
    Participant

    Regarding Miro’s statement about airport pick up – I think it’s a must for the company to arrange the pickup once they committed to this. If the one is traveling, or comes independently to find work in China, I agree that she/he has to take care about where to arrive and where to stay. But as far as I am concerned, in any offer I got from many employers, they all commit to take care about airport pick up, and arranging the place where to stay – and usually, it should be a hotel for at least the time before you get to find the apartment.

    “I find nothing wrong that nobody picked you up at the airport. It’s of course much more pleasant to have somebody to guide you especially if this is your first time coming to China but generally I would assume that a person applying for a job in China shall be able to arrange such things on his/her own.

    Anyway you committed yourself to life and work in China so I do not find so unjustified for your employer to assume you shall be able (and mainly willing) to handle the most normal life requirements independently.”

     

     

    #46156
    Avatar photoMiro630
    Participant

    Dear Silvia,

    I am sorry as I probably expressed myself awkwardly …

    Of course if the company promised to pick a person up so they shall also do that and failing to arrange for such a pick up is certainly a sign of certain problems on the company site.

    But in the context of lexibecks message I find this relatively minor issue as you usually do not need to refer to employment contract if such an ‘annoyance’ happens. I assume the problems lexibecks sees with her company are much more serious than this – I just wanted to put it into perspective.

    Sometimes even people who successfully traveled to quite poor areas of this world without major problem are having difficulties in China just due to the simple fact that few people here speaks English and all signs are written in Chinese. This itself has sometimes quite remarkable impact on psychical stage of some people (I am not saying that this is lexibecks case and I also see nothing wrong with such situation if it really happens!).

    In my job we from time to time have long term visitors and it happens sometimes – one girl had no trouble to get around in India where the environment in many places is much more dangerous than in China but in China she generally refused to leave her apartment other than going to work (just if somebody would pick her up and accompany her, then no trouble).

    Nothing wrong with that – at that time we just sent that girl into another part of the world and she was doing there quite fine.

    What I wanted to say is that in China the person shall be ready to face the outside world quite independently and coup with language and culture barrier on each step … 🙂

    Nevertheless culture and/or language barrier is not the reason for breaking the contract or other agreement if such was made.

    #46165
    Avatar photoSilviaT
    Participant

    Nevertheless culture and/or language barrier is not the reason for breaking the contract or other agreement if such was made.

    Absolutely agree about this. And also about the fact that it seams that there are more serious issues there. I believe it’s just difficult to deal with these kind of issues in a country where you don’t yet speak the language and with such a different culture. But I hope everything will be fine and wish you Lexi a good time in China.

    #46167
    Avatar photoMaz
    Participant

    @SilviaT

    I also work at numerous places via an agency in a week. I started with 3, then went down to 2 places and now I’m at 4 different schools and colleges scattered around Chengdu, but now that is coming to an end soon as I have found an English language training school next door to Sichuan. I will make the job switch this summer. I definitely think getting a direct contract with one place is the best scenario. Running around between schools makes you feel like you don’t belong anywhere.

    @Deven

    I totally agree with you about some of the aspects of teaching English in China as a foreigner. I don’t know if it’s just a Chengdu thing or a China-wide, this mentality of the schools not caring for the most part how good or bad the teacher is. Also, it’s really depressing at times how the students themselves don’t care to learn essential topics even if put in an entertaining format, and how little they care about a background to some piece of information. I got wise long ago and just learned to program the kids, China-style, though in some private schools the kids care and are refreshingly interested. It’s amazing how in parts of the world kids would kill to have school facilities and foreign teachers like the kids do here in Chengdu.

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