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Well lets face it they say what they mean and mean what they say. Its no the USA or Europe so we have to accept it is the way things are. It is not for us the guests of this country to tell them what is right/wrong.
Plus just look at the fashion industry in the western world that is just as bad if not worse.
RE: sexism/racism
Over-the-top discussion about a simple ad in my opinion. Just because they say clearly they’re hiring a white skinned woman doesn’t mean it’s sexist/racist. It’s saying they have determined that’s the right type of ‘model’ for the job, and that’s what they’re after. It’s being clear with what they want. I’d say it’s even *better* to be clear in this way, as opposed to obfuscating the truth and wasting people’s time.
I suppose my question is this. In the US, or any western country, when hiring a model – an agency is contacted with specifics. It may include: height, weight, specific tone of skin, specifics on hair, eye colour, sex (obviously), all of the above and much more. Is this racist/sexist as well? It’s absolutely standard in the industry all over the world, and will NEVER change due to the nature of the industry. You support it by wearing branded clothes who take part in this ‘separation’ based on appearances. How is this any different?
If I plan on hiring a woman with big tits for a job selling coffee in a ‘bikini cafe’, but a guy with a beer gut comes in and is perfectly capable of serving coffee just as well, as an employer, are you telling me it’s absolutely immoral for me to refuse him the position? If so, I’d say you’re hyper-sensitive to the point of being a little ridiculous. Call me what you will, sexist, racist, whatever – but I’d wager I’m less of both than most. Some people just find directness offensive for the sake of finding things offensive. Get over it, really, it’s not a big deal.
Quote:Over-the-top discussion about a simple ad in my opinion.Opinions… Everybody’s got one (including me), and oh yes, this is a forum!! I dig these posts because they tend to draw involvement from others. Whether or not anyone’s opinion on this is disproportionate (again, subjective) is close to being an oxymoron. This is a very relevant discussion in and out of China, and as fervent as some might be on the topic, we’ve barely touched the depths of it.
Marketing frequently follows the model of typing to explicit degree, but it’s fair to say we can see it for what it is, as opposed to condoning it. This is a 30 year old topic in the West that always manages to incite various degrees of reaction, founded or not. Look at the controversial Benetton ad’s of times gone by as an example. I loved some of these ads as a kid, and was always amazed at how distorted reactions could be to them.
In this instance we’re talking about something different, and I think to conceive it as otherwise is to ignore it’s social context. There is a clearly misinformed perception related to ‘White skin’ in a hiring situation such as this, not because it is in itself necessarily wrong, but because it condones and furthers it’s pervasiveness. There are so many social dynamics in this situation that just don’t fit. Just because ‘market forces’ support and encourage it, still doesn’t make it right. If a guy with a beer gut shows up at Hooters looking for a job, he’s clearly lost the plot. If an attractive (yes, subjective) girl/guy show up to interview for a hostess/promotional/other position, shouldn’t they expect a fair shake regardless of gender or race? Fashion advertising is a microcosm of social reality that can argue a case for stylised desirability, accepted or not. A function set up to woo Chinese folk by aligning itself to such ideals is doing harm. I’m sure it’s not doing anything for the self esteem of young Chinese women either.
Quote:Over-the-top discussion about a simple ad in my opinion.Opinions… Everybody’s got one (including me), and oh yes, this is a forum!! I dig these posts because they tend to draw involvement from others. Whether or not anyone’s opinion on this is disproportionate (again, subjective) is close to being an oxymoron. This is a very relevant discussion in and out of China, and as fervent as some might be on the topic, we’ve barely touched the depths of it.
Marketing frequently follows the model of typing to explicit degree, but it’s fair to say we can see it for what it is, as opposed to condoning it. This is a 30 year old topic in the West that always manages to incite various degrees of reaction, founded or not. Look at the controversial Benetton ad’s of times gone by as an example. I loved some of these ads as a kid, and was always amazed at how distorted reactions could be to them.
In this instance we’re talking about something different, and I think to conceive it as otherwise is to ignore it’s social context. There is a clearly misinformed perception related to ‘White skin’ in a hiring situation such as this, not because it is in itself necessarily wrong, but because it condones and furthers it’s pervasiveness. There are so many social dynamics in this situation that just don’t fit. Just because ‘market forces’ support and encourage it, still doesn’t make it right. If a guy with a beer gut shows up at Hooters looking for a job, he’s clearly lost the plot. If an attractive (yes, subjective) girl/guy show up to interview for a hostess/promotional/other position, shouldn’t they expect a fair shake regardless of gender or race? Fashion advertising is a microcosm of social reality that can argue a case for stylised desirability, accepted or not. A function set up to woo Chinese folk by aligning itself to such ideals is doing harm. I’m sure it’s not doing anything for the self esteem of young Chinese women either.
BAA reading this gives me a headache about sexism.. Asians in America face this all the time.. Esp Asian American women… If this post were to be ‘looking for an Asian honey for 8 hours.’ Then list stuff like ‘exotic,’ ‘obedient,’ ‘good at math’ and ‘strong Asian accent’ then shits be a rolling and people will get hurt! I seen many women break down (college level women) when talking in groups about this subject. White dudes (black or mexican or whateva) only see them as ‘objects’ of sexual desire. Heck, maybe the person who posted this wanted to that, who knows. Just saying if things were in the states, Asian American women faced in this situation are really troubled and hits their mentality badly…
Esp with this ‘Linsanity’ stuff happening. Lets just hope this gives more respect to Asian men and women than naught vs ‘oww he made a 3.. now go make me wonton soup…’ Dudes like these i want to hurt badly….
BAA reading this gives me a headache about sexism.. Asians in America face this all the time.. Esp Asian American women… If this post were to be ‘looking for an Asian honey for 8 hours.’ Then list stuff like ‘exotic,’ ‘obedient,’ ‘good at math’ and ‘strong Asian accent’ then shits be a rolling and people will get hurt! I seen many women break down (college level women) when talking in groups about this subject. White dudes (black or mexican or whateva) only see them as ‘objects’ of sexual desire. Heck, maybe the person who posted this wanted to that, who knows. Just saying if things were in the states, Asian American women faced in this situation are really troubled and hits their mentality badly…
Esp with this ‘Linsanity’ stuff happening. Lets just hope this gives more respect to Asian men and women than naught vs ‘oww he made a 3.. now go make me wonton soup…’ Dudes like these i want to hurt badly….
I think the bigger picture is that people will be discriminated against for their differences no matter what. If we’re going to address discrimination, should it end at gender, race, age, weight, social status, sexual orientation, hair color, height, cell phone brand, etc.?
Is it right to discriminate? That’s up to you. But the fact of the matter is that it’s natural. It’s happened since the beginning of time and will continue to happen. People will continue to justify it as they see fit. It’s not right nor wrong is disagree with it, but we have to understand that it’s a part of reality.
As for Jeremy Lin (I actually only came in here to chime in on this)… I respect and admire the guy. He is a sick point guard and his rise to stardom is a great story. However I feel kind of irritated by all the “Linsanity.” I think it’s silly that all of the sudden people are exclaiming that he’s bringing hope to Chinese/Taiwanese/Asian Americans. I don’t understand it. Just because he is successful and happens to be Asian doesn’t mean you will benefit in any way. Your jumpshot will not magically improve, your chances of getting into Harvard won’t get any better, and most importantly, no one will automatically give you more respect just because you and Jeremy Lin are both coincidentally Asian.
So I think it’s ridiculous that China, Taiwan, and Asian Americans are trying to “claim” him as their own right now. None of them did anything for him to help him achieve what he has. His ethnicity has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with his ability to play basketball. So I think it’s stupid to on one hand say “people are racist against Asians” and then on the other hand say “look at Jeremy Lin, he’s Asian and awesome, so all Asians are awesome!” The logic is flawed.
He earned respect for himself and maybe his immediate family and anyone that directly contributed to his success. If you want respect, you earn it yourself. You’ll get none for riding the coattails of someone that just happens to look like you.
i apologize for going off on a tangent
I think the bigger picture is that people will be discriminated against for their differences no matter what. If we’re going to address discrimination, should it end at gender, race, age, weight, social status, sexual orientation, hair color, height, cell phone brand, etc.?
Is it right to discriminate? That’s up to you. But the fact of the matter is that it’s natural. It’s happened since the beginning of time and will continue to happen. People will continue to justify it as they see fit. It’s not right nor wrong is disagree with it, but we have to understand that it’s a part of reality.
As for Jeremy Lin (I actually only came in here to chime in on this)… I respect and admire the guy. He is a sick point guard and his rise to stardom is a great story. However I feel kind of irritated by all the “Linsanity.” I think it’s silly that all of the sudden people are exclaiming that he’s bringing hope to Chinese/Taiwanese/Asian Americans. I don’t understand it. Just because he is successful and happens to be Asian doesn’t mean you will benefit in any way. Your jumpshot will not magically improve, your chances of getting into Harvard won’t get any better, and most importantly, no one will automatically give you more respect just because you and Jeremy Lin are both coincidentally Asian.
So I think it’s ridiculous that China, Taiwan, and Asian Americans are trying to “claim” him as their own right now. None of them did anything for him to help him achieve what he has. His ethnicity has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with his ability to play basketball. So I think it’s stupid to on one hand say “people are racist against Asians” and then on the other hand say “look at Jeremy Lin, he’s Asian and awesome, so all Asians are awesome!” The logic is flawed.
He earned respect for himself and maybe his immediate family and anyone that directly contributed to his success. If you want respect, you earn it yourself. You’ll get none for riding the coattails of someone that just happens to look like you.
i apologize for going off on a tangent
WHOOPS, read it as DUCK, not dunk.. dang.. i guess i want duck now…
Discrimination is a social construct. Could it be biology impeding with social endeavors? Lin did work his way up from nothing, he has def earned his respect. His ethnicity has nothing to do with his ability, yet it shaped him to be who he is now. It is well reported that he faced discrimination during his life (on and off the court). Like many stereotypes of Asian Americans, we are expected to be ‘obedient.’ To sway from that would cause nothing but trouble, aka acting out for no reason than what an ignorant person said. Lin is humble about it and just kept to himself. His interviews are not self-grandiose like Rapist Kobe or Queen James. Lin is polite, humble and has self-doubt when he speaks. Like a martial artists who is working on his skill and knows his pit falls.
What Lin has done is great for the Asian American community, ‘riding the coattails’ could be a way to describe it, yet many see him as a light to guidance of the plights for the community (Espn douche got fired for headlining ‘Chink in the Armor’). There are many great Asian American activists but they were dawned out because there is lack of interests from the community. I highly doubt we AA’s go around saying ‘look Im Azn and Lin is too, so give me respect!.’ On the contrary, i have many friends (including myself) could give a rats ass about respect, its the negatives that is dominant against Asians in the US, the stereotypes that are socially constructed. Lin is breaking barriers from one of American past time.. Bballin! Now its a different story if China wants to claim Lin as their own.. Totally not what im getting at.
The thing with Lin is that he just became famous overnight. And overnight sensations can just be a meme if he does not live up to the hype the media portrays him to be. AKA.. ‘Look at that gook, hes just going to be another ‘Lin.’…
Edit.. Now how did this become a bball/Lin thread from white women? No clue, but we males love to change subjects.. Esp basketball 😛
WHOOPS, read it as DUCK, not dunk.. dang.. i guess i want duck now…
Discrimination is a social construct. Could it be biology impeding with social endeavors? Lin did work his way up from nothing, he has def earned his respect. His ethnicity has nothing to do with his ability, yet it shaped him to be who he is now. It is well reported that he faced discrimination during his life (on and off the court). Like many stereotypes of Asian Americans, we are expected to be ‘obedient.’ To sway from that would cause nothing but trouble, aka acting out for no reason than what an ignorant person said. Lin is humble about it and just kept to himself. His interviews are not self-grandiose like Rapist Kobe or Queen James. Lin is polite, humble and has self-doubt when he speaks. Like a martial artists who is working on his skill and knows his pit falls.
What Lin has done is great for the Asian American community, ‘riding the coattails’ could be a way to describe it, yet many see him as a light to guidance of the plights for the community (Espn douche got fired for headlining ‘Chink in the Armor’). There are many great Asian American activists but they were dawned out because there is lack of interests from the community. I highly doubt we AA’s go around saying ‘look Im Azn and Lin is too, so give me respect!.’ On the contrary, i have many friends (including myself) could give a rats ass about respect, its the negatives that is dominant against Asians in the US, the stereotypes that are socially constructed. Lin is breaking barriers from one of American past time.. Bballin! Now its a different story if China wants to claim Lin as their own.. Totally not what im getting at.
The thing with Lin is that he just became famous overnight. And overnight sensations can just be a meme if he does not live up to the hype the media portrays him to be. AKA.. ‘Look at that gook, hes just going to be another ‘Lin.’…
Edit.. Now how did this become a bball/Lin thread from white women? No clue, but we males love to change subjects.. Esp basketball 😛
Let’s finish this topic, don’t talk it anymore.I was totally lost interest to talk with it.
Because if keep going will be like you talk about table, i talk about chair, just waste time.
Let’s finish this topic, don’t talk it anymore.I was totally lost interest to talk with it.
Because if keep going will be like you talk about table, i talk about chair, just waste time.
Missed a great party here…lol
Instead of “darn it, white skin again”, this kind of thread needs to GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE next time.
Missed a great party here…lol
Instead of “darn it, white skin again”, this kind of thread needs to GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE next time.
@ Linka: so just cos you’ve lost interest, everyone should stop? That ain’t the way forums work. It ain’t rocket science: if you’re bored with a thread, don’t read it.
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