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Quote:Mike Hunt lost 6 straight! But still hanging in there, on a 3 match streak now, fighting on the weekend!
There are exceptions but the general rule is that a handful of people will go undefeated and you cannot expect to lose more than a few fights in a row and succeed. A couple losses in a row (example from a week ago) is usually your ticket out in UFC.
Quote:How many tough tough guys went into the UFC and lost 4/5? How many even got 5 chances?People get cut after losing 2 matches in a row sometimes. If you can lose 4/5 UFC fights in a row and stay on board, you have probably been a superstar at one point and have a significant fan base or some other extraordinary circumstance.
Quote:I met Tiequan and he is one tough dude. And a nice guy. He carried the hopes of all Chinese MMA fighters and took it to the UFC, he lost. So what man? He put a crack in the wall for others to dig into. I got love for Zhang.He could be an awesome guy, I’m not saying he’s a bad person (that would be ridiculous). I’m saying that he was the emerging star that MMA in China needs to break through to the next level, but that dream was not realized, which is disappointing for Zhang, for Chinese MMA fans, for UFC who wants a legit star in China. If we’re talking about the ups and downs of MMA’s growth in China, Zhang is a large piece of that, that’s why his story is relevant.
Hopefully someone else emerges within the next year or two while MMA is still big and growing. As JerryS mentioned, there can now be, first the first time, a serious discussion about whether UFC and MMA could be in decline with a lot of the stars retiring (Lesnar, Liddell, Couture, etc) and not many new ones to take their place yet.
I think Zhang was just the very very beginning, a Jackie Robinson if you will. The big card for the RUFF Superfight included a Kazak badass Jumabieke Tuerxun, who pulled out at the last second. He beat Irshad twice. Most people believes (and the article from Global Times I linked above also believes) that he pulled out in order to pursue UFC dreams. Wouldn’t have thought of that had it not been for Iron Fist!!! Good Luck Tuerxun, gotta get outta yer contract first …
@Charlie RE: “I think that UFC plays a large role in the expansion of MMA in any country “
In context, I didn’t say UFC couldn’t/wouldn’t play a large role in the expansion of MMA in China. I was saying the caliber of fighter around in China right now can’t be compared to UFC fighters as a measurement for the growth of the sport. It’s silly to say MMA isn’t growing here because there aren’t yet major fighters from China in the UFC – that would be great for an even larger explosion and increased interest..but it’s not a dependency.
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=8599104
http://www.sherdog.com/blog/MMA-vs-Kung-Fu-Debate-Gains-Momentum-in-China-49889
I guess I could search for more articles, but the point is, *it’s growing*. My point about fights locally – they do happen, you just don’t necessarily see them promoted all over the place, maybe it has to do with ease of getting authorization in smaller cities for the newer organizations. I will update you when I know details on the ‘bigger’ fight coming this year that my buddy will compete in, but I think most of that will be san da rules rather than MMA, but I don’t know the details yet.
Zhang Tiequan is a good fighter, but the UFC is too much for him. If he wants to succeed, he has to leave China and train with a good team in the US.
UFC is the ONLY BRAND that matters now in MMA now. If you can make it and succeed in the UFC, then that is the gateway to success. For MMA to grow in China there has to be interest. If it were an Olympiac sport, i bet you MMA would flourish! In order to succeed in the Chinese Market, one has to go through the gov’t (many of China’s fighters comes from ‘Sports University’). UFC is trying to do that with CTT (China Top Team), but the battle looks grim in the expansion of MMA in China. There is hope if Ruff can succeed without their fighters leaving their organization.
Currently, MMA isnt really growing much in China, in the Philippines and India it’s exploding. Like Charlie wrote, Zhang was their gateway for MMA’s growth in China but he faltered. If he won all of his fights in the UFC (when he won he won with killer submissions), that would create a ripple effect in China. It will show a Chinese fighter, born and raised defeating a foreign foe, type of Nationalistic nostalgia. He was being regarded as the next big thing when he entered the UFC (hell i was excited when he fought). Yet he was one dimensional in his approach. His last fight, he lost to a dude from Guam (BJJ champ as well). Is he still a great fighter? Of course, he just needs better coaching.
Tuerxun is a beast but his best accomplishment was beating Irshaad Sayed via split decision. Will he do well in the UFC, i hope so, but i doubt it. His best opponent was Irshaad at 135 lbs.
Being successful in the UFC does not mean you are just a great fighter, one also has to be a personality! UFC is a business and being a business, they need to generate revenue. This past weekend, they had two women headlining the main event. Their PPV buys were 400k, damn good for a shitty card. Chael is fighting Jon Jones because he just talked junk infront of the media to garner interests in the fight. If a fighter has a personality and can back up his claim, then he will make tons of money and be remembered; Tyson, Clay/Ali, Brock Lesner,and Old Wanderlei Silva in Pride.
So to sum up, MMA isnt really growing in China, it’s slowly moving along. If this is China’s best example in a championship fight, they i see a gloomy future for MMA here.. The last thing i want to see (or pay to watch for that matter) is some dude flop on his ass while getting hit. Oww, Royce Gracie never flopped on his but when getting punched, he took dudes down and dominated (when no one know ground fighting).. This dude in the video.. Flopped and went for half ass submission attempts when he did took Ishaad down. Another championship fight from Ruff, here the Chinese fighter low kicked a BJJ champ… Never try to kick a BJJ champ, you are asking to be taken down! Also these two Chinese fighters does not hold a candle to Zhang.. Zhang is a great fighter and on a different level compared when comparing.
There was an event last year in Sichuan Sports Stadium.. 10 fights, 9 fights were Sand Da while the 10th fight was half San Da and half MMA? What do i mean half? First round San Da and 2nd Round MMA….. In a sense, that’s not really growing. They had music blasting in the background while fights were occuring. Also the event was something like ‘China vs the world’ or some retarded shit. Of course China won all of their fights… They specifically put up a Chinese fighter vs a Brazilian in their main event half MMA fight. Why? They wanted to show that China can beat ‘Brazilian Jiu Jitsu’ on the ground and show their supremacy (Chinese dude won via forearm to the Braz’s throat). These type of events happen all the time, i hardly call this ‘Growing’ in China, more like regression.
Ok Jerry. You’re right. I concede. MMA isn’t growing at all in China – in fact it’s stagnant. I wish I had some sort of numbers on the people training MMA year-on-year, so I had a better way to end this stupid argument. You’re just going back to “there isn’t a Chinese born dude in the UFC, hence, it’s not growing.” I don’t see why it’s difficult to see the disconnect in that argument.
*sighs*
Anyone going to the March RUFF 3 fight in Chongqing? 😀
I DO want MMA to succeed of course. I am fully behind RUFF and their plight to make this happen! Ruff in Chongqing is fun, did it last year, went to the after party and had a blast!
The reason why i say ‘a dude not in the UFC’ is because they lack certain skill set and experience. Zhang had the skill set to hang with the best MMA fighters in the world. Being in the UFC says ‘you are damn good.
That is not the dependency of growth of the sport though, Jerry. You must be thinking of it in terms of individual fighters, not as a sport from a macro level. Someone else put it best:
“China is largely considered a future hot bed for Asian MMA fighters with its massive population and its growing interest in the sport.”
I’m not saying it’s HUGE in China *now*. I’m saying it’s growing and gaining interest across the country. That’s what growth means, it’s still in infancy stages and getting bigger every month. New gyms, new competitions, and new interest by people wanting to train… that *is* growth.
Quote:I guess I could search for more articles, but the point is, *it’s growing*.I hear that, although everything on the internet right now that says that MMA is growing in China is RUFF. Including the ESPN podcast, wherein the RUFF creators say that within years China will definitely be producing fighters who will compete at the highest levels of UFC (quite a claim), as well as the Sherdog article which is based on an Economist article (authored by Sascha), which itself is based on RUFF as well. Obviously, RUFF is a business based on propagating MMA within China, and I wish them well with that, as I’m sure everyone else here does. I just find it interesting to see people acting like MMA is taking off in China where I haven’t seen many actual signs of that other than prospective talk like “MMA is going to be really big in China”.
Quote:Ok Jerry. You’re right. I concede. MMA isn’t growing at all in China – in fact it’s stagnant. I wish I had some sort of numbers on the people training MMA year-on-year, so I had a better way to end this stupid argument. You’re just going back to “there isn’t a Chinese born dude in the UFC, hence, it’s not growing.” I don’t see why it’s difficult to see the disconnect in that argument.You won’t find that info because the number of people training MMA in China is so small… seriously, the number of people training MMA in this entire country is probably a small fraction of a major US city. You are distorting and exaggerating Jerry’s point, which is rational, by stating it in oversimplified terms. For China’s MMA scene to actually take off, it will require home-bred fighters with skill, who can win. Otherwise China will just remain a spectator. RUFF is saying that they’ll definitely play a role in cultivating champions. Now we just have to watch and see if RUFF can build MMA in China to a world-class program within the next year or two.
Quote:Anyone going to the March RUFF 3 fight in Chongqing? 😀Do you have a link or any info? I googled for this and did find anything about that event. I might go to Chongqing this weekend and if I do, it would be great to check that event out.
Martial arts massive! I just published an interview about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in Chengdu which you can check out here: Chengdu Stories: Jiu Jitsu with JerryS
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