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This morning I ran across this article which was published today: Why U.S., China are Destined to Clash
The thrust of the article is that on the 40th anniversary of Nixon’s visit, China and the US share less than ever and that conflict is inevitable. Which is more or less the same argument made in this book: The Coming China Wars: Where They Will Be Fought and How They Can Be Won.
Most of us thought that China would change politically as its economy grew and it was embraced by the rest of the world in meaningful ways like hosting the Olympics. But instead of opening up, it has been closing up.
I notice that a lot of people in China see America as a threat, although I think this might be waning since we’ve concluded the Iraq war. China has been bombarded with propaganda that the United States is a bad guy for decades, and the average American also approaches the abstract notion of “China” with caution. I can see something going down in 5-10 years as China continues to grow and militarize while the US slowly loses influence.
Do you think more conflict is inevitable?
China do need change, need make it better, this big country with big population, need change that’s true.
But west and east are two different system, the way of thinking also two different system.
China need change, but if somebody use west way to talking to China, i can sure it will go to bad way!
What China need is help from people who willing to help China getting better, it’s not order!
This communist party can be here have reason, not because it’s have good tools called propaganda , the people here can take this for such long time have some reasons! Like i said before, i believe Chinese people have play half of the role. That is make west way goes diffcullt here, it’s not simply called “guanxi” or “mianzi”, it’s very complex things!
What will happen in the future i don’t know, but as many chinese speak English, know outside of the world, not just adore somebody for he have blue eyes, then you will see different opinion coming out.
China do need change, need make it better, this big country with big population, need change that’s true.
But west and east are two different system, the way of thinking also two different system.
China need change, but if somebody use west way to talking to China, i can sure it will go to bad way!
What China need is help from people who willing to help China getting better, it’s not order!
This communist party can be here have reason, not because it’s have good tools called propaganda , the people here can take this for such long time have some reasons! Like i said before, i believe Chinese people have play half of the role. That is make west way goes diffcullt here, it’s not simply called “guanxi” or “mianzi”, it’s very complex things!
What will happen in the future i don’t know, but as many chinese speak English, know outside of the world, not just adore somebody for he have blue eyes, then you will see different opinion coming out.
Quote:But west and east are two different system, the way of thinking also two different system.That is true, philosophically the West is based on the Socratic method and the East on Confucious. A lot of people see these two systems though: the democratic political system of the developed world, and the autocratic one-party systems of China, Iran and Russia. The realization is that our previous assumption that China would liberalize with its economic growth might be outright false. This changes a lot of things.
Quote:This communist party can be here have reason, not because it’s have good tools called propaganda , the people here can take this for such long time have some reasons! Like i said before, i believe Chinese people have play half of the role. That is make west way goes diffcullt here, it’s not simply called “guanxi” or “mianzi”, it’s very complex things!Yeah, there are a lot of advantages to having government in control of everything. Fast physical growth, no red tape or opposition to government initiatives, etc.
Quote:What will happen in the future i don’t know, but as many chinese speak English, know outside of the world, not just adore somebody for he have blue eyes, then you will see different opinion coming out.I agree, but I really wonder when that will happen. I think we’re many decades away.
Quote:But west and east are two different system, the way of thinking also two different system.That is true, philosophically the West is based on the Socratic method and the East on Confucious. A lot of people see these two systems though: the democratic political system of the developed world, and the autocratic one-party systems of China, Iran and Russia. The realization is that our previous assumption that China would liberalize with its economic growth might be outright false. This changes a lot of things.
Quote:This communist party can be here have reason, not because it’s have good tools called propaganda , the people here can take this for such long time have some reasons! Like i said before, i believe Chinese people have play half of the role. That is make west way goes diffcullt here, it’s not simply called “guanxi” or “mianzi”, it’s very complex things!Yeah, there are a lot of advantages to having government in control of everything. Fast physical growth, no red tape or opposition to government initiatives, etc.
Quote:What will happen in the future i don’t know, but as many chinese speak English, know outside of the world, not just adore somebody for he have blue eyes, then you will see different opinion coming out.I agree, but I really wonder when that will happen. I think we’re many decades away.
China would not be liberalize with its economic growth ! That’s the keypoint make many Chinese like me feel pain. That also is what we worried about it.
China would not be liberalize with its economic growth ! That’s the keypoint make many Chinese like me feel pain. That also is what we worried about it.
I’m answering Linka’s post point by point as an invitation to give deeper perspective on a deeply interesting topic. Previous forum threads have fallen prey to a misguided rhetoric without any real engagement. Language has been an issue too. I’m hoping that won’t be the case here.
Quote:China do need change, need make it better, this big country with big population, need change that’s true.What change do you see that it needs? I ask this because after 60 years of Communist rule, and the eradication of an all too often quoted 5000 year history, the ‘people’ have allowed their own country to become beset with inefficiency that undermines their very existence in all facets of life.
Quote:But west and east are two different system, the way of thinking also two different system.East & West are indeed a different system, but they are ethically the same in their originally intended purpose, at least on face value. They are idealistically systems of government intended to serve the people above all other interests. All of us in the West know this to be a fallacy, we’ve been witness to the sale of government for decades, and we take to the streets about it often. We continually debate the issues in the public domain, even encourage such discussion, including within our schools, colleges, and universities. China is definitely not doing this.
How will China and it’s people do this if they are to remain idle in the face of deliberate party line?
Quote:China need change, but if somebody use west way to talking to China, i can sure it will go to bad way!Are you talking about the literal delivery of ‘language’ here, or are you speaking of cultural approach to solving inherent problems?
It’s definitely true that in the West we have a different way of framing what we say and mean, take irony for example, but that isn’t an argument for disrespect of any idealised cultural heritage. And again, I question that heritage if it’s been so readily desecrated within the last century.
Quote:What China need is help from people who willing to help China getting better, it’s not order!This appears contradictory to your last remark. China does need help in it’s development, both socially and economically. The larger problem is that even with this help, you have a government that is ultimately self serving and preserving, irrespective of the people. Chinese state media for example continues to deride the West almost daily in one form or another, but will rarely make any mention of Western input into it’s development as a whole. By the same token, any ‘protests’ against party line are quickly quashed, while anti Japan demonstrations are allowed to take place with little interference.
Where and how do you see this help implemented to most effect, now and in the future?
Quote:This communist party can be here have reason, not because it’s have good tools called propaganda , the people here can take this for such long time have some reasons! Like i said before, i believe Chinese people have play half of the role. That is make west way goes diffcullt here, it’s not simply called “guanxi” or “mianzi”, it’s very complex things!By ‘good tools’, I’ll assume you mean that in the negative. That’s what we in the West would definitely term an ironic statement.
As for ‘the people can take this for such a long time have some reasons!’… What could those ‘reasons’ possibly be? Maybe explain your perspective on this. My own reasoning is that the people have allowed themselves to be so succinctly shaped by a brutal and totalitarian regime, so that culturally there now exists an utter reluctance to be the person speaking out against common perception or ideal, even in the face of human harm. ‘Face’ is a prime example, a doctrine so rigid and conforming, it pulls the very soul from it’s victims who never stop to ask why such doctrine exists in the first place.
The ‘complex’ argument is always fascinating to me in it’s ignorance. The ‘things are complex’ excuse for essentially ‘not doing’ something is another bereft reference to a history eradicated by impassive inaction, all the while missing the point that it is this very inaction that leaves China in it’s current predicament. The very word ‘complex’ has been used as a blanket to so many arguments, I have genuinely lost count.
Quote:What will happen in the future i don’t know, but as many chinese speak English, know outside of the world, not just adore somebody for he have blue eyes, then you will see different opinion coming out.This is a big question. China’s development is bringing increased standard of living to millions of people annually, but the manner in which it is taking shape will ultimately bring with it a myriad of future concerns, be they economic, political, environmental, or indeed social. I’m not sure where your ‘blue eyes’ statement fits, perhaps you can be more specific. I don’t quite see China as a whole having undying and unquestionable adoration for blue eyed males, I do however see a history of misguided allegiance to concocted ideals, created to serve the upper echelons of power. Avoidance of that fact, and a reluctance to ask such questions is what will keep the Chinese people forever in the dark. We might be under engagement of our own misgivings in the West, but we have a perspective all the same. Yes, our governments have been shown to have kept significant factual events from us in self interest, but I see no such revelation being made within Mainland China.
All the while references to innert belief, perception, or ideal are made in the face of Western comment or criticism, the Chinese people will continue to undermine themselves and the opporunity they have to determine their own lives. You have a political system that systematically feeds this divide, because it is this very divide that allows political control of the people. Propoganda pays no attention to the true ideals held by it’s perceived enemies, it pays attention only to drawing stereo types. You can not know the outside world if it is not shown you, so instead you are left only with what you are allowed to perceive.
Sadly for the last 60 years you have been allowed to perceive very little.
Finally as for conflict, I seriously doubt that will be an eventuality, not for some time to come at least. There is China’s alliance with Iran to consider, and I’m sure that’s why the U.S. government is making inroads to Iranian invasion now, as opposed to somewhere down the road. Western media is propagating the event nicely, but much of this is noise. I personally think we’re embarking on a period of history that will see unprecedented social and economic development in both the East & West, and it is this development that will be the distraction and concern for many nations over the next decade. Skirmishes will continue while lesser nations struggle to find place in the new world order, but for the most part I suspect we’ll see a period of stability for some time to come.
I’m answering Linka’s post point by point as an invitation to give deeper perspective on a deeply interesting topic. Previous forum threads have fallen prey to a misguided rhetoric without any real engagement. Language has been an issue too. I’m hoping that won’t be the case here.
Quote:China do need change, need make it better, this big country with big population, need change that’s true.What change do you see that it needs? I ask this because after 60 years of Communist rule, and the eradication of an all too often quoted 5000 year history, the ‘people’ have allowed their own country to become beset with inefficiency that undermines their very existence in all facets of life.
Quote:But west and east are two different system, the way of thinking also two different system.East & West are indeed a different system, but they are ethically the same in their originally intended purpose, at least on face value. They are idealistically systems of government intended to serve the people above all other interests. All of us in the West know this to be a fallacy, we’ve been witness to the sale of government for decades, and we take to the streets about it often. We continually debate the issues in the public domain, even encourage such discussion, including within our schools, colleges, and universities. China is definitely not doing this.
How will China and it’s people do this if they are to remain idle in the face of deliberate party line?
Quote:China need change, but if somebody use west way to talking to China, i can sure it will go to bad way!Are you talking about the literal delivery of ‘language’ here, or are you speaking of cultural approach to solving inherent problems?
It’s definitely true that in the West we have a different way of framing what we say and mean, take irony for example, but that isn’t an argument for disrespect of any idealised cultural heritage. And again, I question that heritage if it’s been so readily desecrated within the last century.
Quote:What China need is help from people who willing to help China getting better, it’s not order!This appears contradictory to your last remark. China does need help in it’s development, both socially and economically. The larger problem is that even with this help, you have a government that is ultimately self serving and preserving, irrespective of the people. Chinese state media for example continues to deride the West almost daily in one form or another, but will rarely make any mention of Western input into it’s development as a whole. By the same token, any ‘protests’ against party line are quickly quashed, while anti Japan demonstrations are allowed to take place with little interference.
Where and how do you see this help implemented to most effect, now and in the future?
Quote:This communist party can be here have reason, not because it’s have good tools called propaganda , the people here can take this for such long time have some reasons! Like i said before, i believe Chinese people have play half of the role. That is make west way goes diffcullt here, it’s not simply called “guanxi” or “mianzi”, it’s very complex things!By ‘good tools’, I’ll assume you mean that in the negative. That’s what we in the West would definitely term an ironic statement.
As for ‘the people can take this for such a long time have some reasons!’… What could those ‘reasons’ possibly be? Maybe explain your perspective on this. My own reasoning is that the people have allowed themselves to be so succinctly shaped by a brutal and totalitarian regime, so that culturally there now exists an utter reluctance to be the person speaking out against common perception or ideal, even in the face of human harm. ‘Face’ is a prime example, a doctrine so rigid and conforming, it pulls the very soul from it’s victims who never stop to ask why such doctrine exists in the first place.
The ‘complex’ argument is always fascinating to me in it’s ignorance. The ‘things are complex’ excuse for essentially ‘not doing’ something is another bereft reference to a history eradicated by impassive inaction, all the while missing the point that it is this very inaction that leaves China in it’s current predicament. The very word ‘complex’ has been used as a blanket to so many arguments, I have genuinely lost count.
Quote:What will happen in the future i don’t know, but as many chinese speak English, know outside of the world, not just adore somebody for he have blue eyes, then you will see different opinion coming out.This is a big question. China’s development is bringing increased standard of living to millions of people annually, but the manner in which it is taking shape will ultimately bring with it a myriad of future concerns, be they economic, political, environmental, or indeed social. I’m not sure where your ‘blue eyes’ statement fits, perhaps you can be more specific. I don’t quite see China as a whole having undying and unquestionable adoration for blue eyed males, I do however see a history of misguided allegiance to concocted ideals, created to serve the upper echelons of power. Avoidance of that fact, and a reluctance to ask such questions is what will keep the Chinese people forever in the dark. We might be under engagement of our own misgivings in the West, but we have a perspective all the same. Yes, our governments have been shown to have kept significant factual events from us in self interest, but I see no such revelation being made within Mainland China.
All the while references to innert belief, perception, or ideal are made in the face of Western comment or criticism, the Chinese people will continue to undermine themselves and the opporunity they have to determine their own lives. You have a political system that systematically feeds this divide, because it is this very divide that allows political control of the people. Propoganda pays no attention to the true ideals held by it’s perceived enemies, it pays attention only to drawing stereo types. You can not know the outside world if it is not shown you, so instead you are left only with what you are allowed to perceive.
Sadly for the last 60 years you have been allowed to perceive very little.
Finally as for conflict, I seriously doubt that will be an eventuality, not for some time to come at least. There is China’s alliance with Iran to consider, and I’m sure that’s why the U.S. government is making inroads to Iranian invasion now, as opposed to somewhere down the road. Western media is propagating the event nicely, but much of this is noise. I personally think we’re embarking on a period of history that will see unprecedented social and economic development in both the East & West, and it is this development that will be the distraction and concern for many nations over the next decade. Skirmishes will continue while lesser nations struggle to find place in the new world order, but for the most part I suspect we’ll see a period of stability for some time to come.
Brendon
I am not going to answer any of your questions.
First,that’s is questions you should do somework find out by youself.
Secondly, if i really discuss that with you here, then i am really very stupid girl!
ok,then ,farewell. you guys!
Have fun!
Brendon
I am not going to answer any of your questions.
First,that’s is questions you should do somework find out by youself.
Secondly, if i really discuss that with you here, then i am really very stupid girl!
ok,then ,farewell. you guys!
Have fun!
China is a dictatorship of a political party, the party, is moving toward corruption. If you do not reform, China’s development will be limited. the public speech in China is limited.
China is a dictatorship of a political party, the party, is moving toward corruption. If you do not reform, China’s development will be limited. the public speech in China is limited.
Some very good points. The one I was going to mention first and foremost was the “complex” nonsense. I always hear the “it is complicated” blanket to avoid any real depth in root cause analysis or answering with any semblance of directness.
@Linka
If you want to grow in any way, shape, or form – I’d suggest using the “good tool” known as communication. 😀 If you simply don’t want to reply due to the length of a response or the language complexity that’s cool too, you can say “it’s complex”. But to simply say you’re not replying because he can find answers himself almost proves some of what he said as being spot on, case in point: “so that culturally there now exists an utter reluctance to be the person speaking out against common perception or ideal”. It’s a forum, speak up for yourself – reply, show us what you got!
Some very good points. The one I was going to mention first and foremost was the “complex” nonsense. I always hear the “it is complicated” blanket to avoid any real depth in root cause analysis or answering with any semblance of directness.
@Linka
If you want to grow in any way, shape, or form – I’d suggest using the “good tool” known as communication. 😀 If you simply don’t want to reply due to the length of a response or the language complexity that’s cool too, you can say “it’s complex”. But to simply say you’re not replying because he can find answers himself almost proves some of what he said as being spot on, case in point: “so that culturally there now exists an utter reluctance to be the person speaking out against common perception or ideal”. It’s a forum, speak up for yourself – reply, show us what you got!
guys,
if the girl posts what she thinks she can expect a knock on the door so to speak. Use a little common sense?
there are some things a person cannot say on here especially when holding a chinese passport. Accept that she has views but cannot express them. look how careful she was in her choice of words and fill in the gaps for yourselves.
Cheers
Rich
guys,
if the girl posts what she thinks she can expect a knock on the door so to speak. Use a little common sense?
there are some things a person cannot say on here especially when holding a chinese passport. Accept that she has views but cannot express them. look how careful she was in her choice of words and fill in the gaps for yourselves.
Cheers
Rich
Quote:@BrendanSome very good points. The one I was going to mention first and foremost was the “complex” nonsense. I always hear the “it is complicated” blanket to avoid any real depth in root cause analysis or answering with any semblance of directness.
Me too, many times. Or China’s high population, which is another common thing brought up when discussing domestic issues.
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