Working on an F-Visa in China

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  • This topic has 7 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 10 years ago by Avatar photoRay.
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  • #33417
    Avatar photoMax66
    Participant

    Hi, I’m new to this site its great, very well put together.

    Firstly, i have never worked or even been to China so im completely naive as to the mechanics of it all. Recently though i was offered a great work assignment for a large global enterprise in Chengdu. The job was there, the money was great everything 75% perfect the only thing that stopped me was an issue i had with the Visa. The European agency who offered me the job insisted that i could only work there on an ‘F’ Visa and that i had absolutely no hope of getting a Z Visa. They told me that the assignment would only be for initially 6 months but i had hoped and planned to stay much longer. I have been led to believe that the agency have sent workers regularly to work there on renewable F Visa’s and some have stayed for years on this particular system.

    I (maybe stupidly?) turned the job down because i was advised by a Chinese finance company that it was impossible to legally work on a F visa and declare your full income in China. It appears to legally work in China you must have a Z Visa which must be issued by a Chinese company, therefore your income is Chinese sourced and taxable in China regardless of how long you have been there. The  European agency argued that it was OK to work on a F Visa and that all the rules are all grey regarding taxation and visa’s in China, im afraid i never got the chance to ask them exactly which parts of the laws are grey? I think i may of got a stuttering answer to that one.

    From the information i have gathered, it actually appears that the laws in China are actually very clear regarding Visa’s, its just that the system is too out dated and slow to accommodated large or even small business enterprises from obtaining the immense skills base that China actually needs to maintain its growth. This has caused this awful situation that a lot of expats have been put in by agencies/companies who have decided to operate in this so called “grey area”.

    I can imagine a lot of expats loosing sleep at the moment worrying that their visa’s won’t be renewed. Expats are all human we are driven by the experiences and riches life abroad can offer, but that drive can also darken our judgement when entering into a new life in an alien country. We are easily fooled by situations we may find ourselves in and think its OK to bend the rules a little to get what we want, but is that really true?

    The agencies and companies who have exploited these so called grey areas, in my opinion should be responsible for the outcome. They have the “modus operandi” they have created this evil by convincing expats that its actually OK to bend the rules, when actually the rules were always perfectly clear, these companies and agencies are also in it for their own financial gain. I’m guessing that if you are already in this situation you will really find out the quality of your agency and the host Chinese company when these new rules are taken into full effect. If they are decent people and your presence and skills are valued its my guess that they will find some way of guiding you safely through it. If they don’t and push you away then i’m afraid it appears in the long run they were never worth bothering with in the first place, you have been used, learn from it and move on.

    I am afraid im jobless, dazed, confused and gutted by the last few weeks. Maybe i should of just taken the job and worried about all this later. Now I should be about to embark on a new chapter of my life in a great job in China and now i’m not. I have been thwarted by a company and an agency who have been bending the rules for years in China and because i wanted to play safe and make my stay legal they have pushed me in the face and closed the door. The European agency would only say that their Chinese clients do not want expats working on Z visa’s, they will encroach on China’s labor market, they wanted Chinese jobs for Chinese people and i was not wanted.

    I would be interested to know what peoples thoughts are on this blog you may already be in this situation or have been in this situation before. I hope for many expats it works out OK and you do find a way through all this uncertainty. It may be that it won’t be that bad for you after all and transferring from one visa to another might be relatively easy. The Chinese immigration Authorities are not stupid after all, they have known about this situation themselves for years, how they will deal with it exactly nobody seems to know. Surely if the rules are too strict China’s expat community will empty quite quickly and then I guess a new era will begin.

    #33420
    Avatar photohank
    Participant

    I only skimmed through your post but you’re right, you’re not allowed to work for a company with a F visa. Should be Z visa. You’re allowed to work IN China with an F visa though if you’re a freelancer working from your home office or so. Or if you’re there for a business visit.

    BUT the visa policies changed today 1st of July(see https://www.chengduliving.com/forum/topic/whats-up-with-these-1-july-visa-rumors/). I still don’t know exactly how it turned out but it’s very likely that F visa is no more and have been replaced by something called M visa.

    #33422
    Avatar photoBrendan
    Moderator

    Sorry to hear about your situation, I can understand you feeling bummed out by it all for the moment. It’s interesting reading your account, because it really highlights just how making the decision to come to China can resemble being between a rock and a hard place. I personally had a nightmare that lasted several weeks prior to coming, even after having been flown out by the company for 9 days earlier in the year to familiarise myself with Chengdu. Ultimately in the end I just took the chance and came out here myself to organise my visa within China. A big part of the problem with visas is that there are indeed ‘grey areas’ that not even Chinese employers have a real handle on unless they have a relationship with an agent or officer working within the PSB.

    In answer to some of your questions (and I’m sure others will chip in, this is a hot topic with the new visa laws taking effect today!), were you to be ‘self employed’ under this contract? If that were the case then I imagine an F visa would have been sufficient, even preferable. Z visas are aimed at individuals who (typically) hold qualification, expertise, and/or extensive experience (officially 5 years minimum) in their respective field.

    You happen to be asking this question at a curious time. If we (none of us) were wholly certain of visa law before July 1st, you can be damn sure we’re even more confused now. Even if on paper the new laws aim to clarify, experience tells us that nothing in China is so black and white, so I’d imagine both officials and employers just got served a new slice of headache today as the new laws take effect.

    The only other thing I would say is that bottom line, coming to China is in itself a gamble even with the red carpet all laid out for you. You will with absolute certainty have to eat shit at some point (forgive my french), but hey ho you’re in China and life is experience. It takes a resilient personality to stick it out and keep trying, just as it takes a leap of faith to jump ship out here in the first place.

    Maybe take this as a preview and get straight onto securing something else, there are no shortage of opportunities. There’s enough information in the forum regarding just about everything you’d need to know, including contact details for at least a couple of active visa agents.

    Good luck.

    #33425
    Avatar photoRay
    Participant

    Brendan, you still eating shit? Dude, i told you that’s bro science. The nutritional benefits of that are highly contentious. Stick with synthol. In fact, i just brewed up a new batch in my kitchen…

    #33437
    Avatar photoMax66
    Participant

    Hi Guys, thanks for your replies, would it be possible for you point me in the right direction to where it is written down that you can freelance for 6 months on a F Visa? Maybe this is where i have been going wrong for the last few weeks. The only information i can find out officially about F visa’s is from the Chinese embassies website which says

    Business Visa (F-visa) is issued to a foreign citizen who is invited to China for visit, research, lecture, business, exchanges in the fields of science, technology, education, culture and sports, or attending various kinds of trade fairs or exhibitions, or short-term study, intern practice, for a period of no more than six months. 

    Thanks!

    #33438
    Avatar photoBrendan
    Moderator

    Stick with synthol.

    What’s with the Synthol obsession!?

    a) It won’t cure your mutant 50% bicep, and

    b) Absolutely nothing to do with visas, unless you imagine filling yourself up on home brewed synthol (why am I entertaining this with a reply!?) would get you a few extra months. I guess you could qualify as a circus act.

    #33442
    Avatar photoBen
    Moderator

    Stick with synthol. In fact, i just brewed up a new batch in my kitchen…

    And the winner of Most Off Topic Post goes to….*drum roll*

    #33443
    Avatar photoRay
    Participant

    @Ben: (in Samuel L. Jackson Pulp Fiction voice): “I don’t remember asking you a goddamned thing”…

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