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Hey everybody!
My name is Zak. I came to Chengdu about 8 days ago to decide if I want to move here. 8 days later, I’ve decided. The lifestyle in Chengdu seems a good fit and the perfect departure from my life out east, and I look forward to coming back in September after a brief stay in the states.. This site has also been massively helpful. If the forums here are any sort of barometer, the community here seems both hyper-involved as well as equally forthcoming, a strong mix.
My time here has largely been spent on the outskirts of town (I’m staying just inside the third ring) or enjoying the hospitality from a few really great expats here. Both have been awesome, but I would still really appreciate any wise counsel the benevolent and enlightened forum seniors might be able to bestow. Thanks for sticking this out. Here goes.
Feel free to reply to any or all of these. Or if you just want to say hey then say hey, too. All appreciated.:
First, language. I get the dialect issue. I don’t get the magnitude of the issue. If I (am working on) speak(ing) Mandarin, will I be able to continue to work on it here in a practical way? I’ve met some great locals and they’ve spoke pretty ok putonghua; are these anomalies? From the foreigners I’ve met, I’ve been deeply impressed and encouraged by the high level of mandarin some have acquired out here. It seems possible in spite of the dialect if I’m willing to put in the work.
Second, living. I don’t have a damn clue where I’d want to live. I’m likely going to be sharing a spot with a Chinese friend, and we are both a bit cost-sensitive though not terribly so. Any suggestions for cool neighborhoods? Also, what is the cost of living here? I eat cheap but like to be able to buy a friend a beer when we go out. What might that take?
Third, jobs. I’ll be looking for a job that is not teaching English. How tough is that to get? I understand that skills/experience/language skills are all massive factors, but a hazy “there are a fair amount of jobs here,” or otherwise, will be cool for now.
Fourth, what should I be asking? What lurking questions or issues or really great stuff about Chengdu have I maybe overlooked? Or it would have taken me a handful of years to even know I should ask about it?
Otherwise, what up everybody! Real excited to be get out here. Sorry for this tldnr crap. Won’t happen again.
Excitedly,
Zak
ZaK man, was good to meet you on Sunday night and share Anderson Silva’s abject humiliation. Look forward to catching you again. Sorry I can’t answer any of your questions. Haven’t really been here long enough (insert that smiley face thing here)…
Mod: I ALMOST changed the topic again. Apologies…..
On the subject of Anderson Silva, I watched it live on my TV. Channel 82 if you have a digital box.
1. You’ll be fine if you can speak putonghua.
2. I reckon yulin is the best area of town to live in. You can live off 4000-5000 a month if you’re careful.
3. What kind of job are you looking for? Cafe Paname is looking for a foreign bartender right now.There’s the fourth question you should be asking is should I move to Chongqing instead? If I had a clean slate and no ties in chengdu it would be a very very easy question to answer.
Ray thanks for trollin man. I would have been disappointed if I didn’t catch your eye on here.
AM, thanks for the direct feedback. The bar tending job sounds legit, but I won’t be back for a month and a half. If they’re still looking for a bartender by then, I will for sure get in touch.
LongWang, it is funny that you say that. I was initially looking very seriously into Chongqing. Why would you move there over Chengdu?
Mod: I ALMOST changed the topic again. Apologies…..
Yes, where are those mods when you need them… :/
Zak, hi, if you need any Synthol Ray can fix you up.
Hi Zak, for some reason I can’t IM you. I’ve lived in Chengdu for over 2 years and 1 year in Chongqing. The main reasons I prefer chongqing are the set-up of the city. Its set out like New York with different areas all of which feel slightly different and have individual centres to each. Whereas Chengdu just feels like a small Beijing with no skyline and one city centre.
Another tangible benefit of Chongqing is the ridiculously low rent in the city. For a nice 1 bedroom in a desired area of chengdu you will pay 2500-3000 per month. My newly built apartment in Nanping in Chongqing was 1500 a month for a one bedroom. Taxis are cheap too compared to Chengdu, and the subway system at present is more convenient than Chengdu.
Does anyone else have problem posting on here sometime? It just stops inputting what you write?
To continue, there are less foreigners in Chongqing, so that can be perceived as positive or negative! But the city has an edge that Chengdu doesn’t have.
And with regards to your question on putonghua being more prevalent in Chengdu, I never noticed that, almost all people under 70 can understand putonghua and almost all peopleI under 40 can speak it. This is the same in both cities. I actually find the Chongqing dialect slightly easier to understand.
These are only my opinions and hopefully someone can give you a balanced argument on the contrary so you have lots of information at hand.
Hey Zak,
Nice to meet you on Sunday at the barbecue – it seems like your social circle here is already forming well.
To answer some of your questions:
Language – you can learn clear Mandarin in Chengdu if you go into it with a plan. I speak pretty good Mandarin, so does Eli, so does Jack, etc. There are a lot of examples of expats in Chengdu who speak good Mandarin, as opposed to Sichuan dialect. More of those than expats who speak very good Sichuan dialect, in my experience, which I attribute to the fact that the majority of expats who speak very good Chinese have some kind of formal academic background in Mandarin. Basically wherever you go in China there will be a regional dialect.
Living – Yulin, Zongbei/Zongnan, or Tongzilin are best. Being within walking distance of a subway station helps. Those areas are more expensive than other districts in Chengdu, and for a reason. Expats can pretty easily afford it, even people who are part time English teachers.
Jobs – Try checking 51jobs.com or email me your resume (charlie at chengduliving.com), I might be able to help you out. There are a lot of non-teaching job opportunities in Chengdu and more come with every year.
Hi Zak, for some reason I can’t IM you. I’ve lived in Chengdu for over 2 years and 1 year in Chongqing. The main reasons I prefer chongqing are the set-up of the city. Its set out like New York with different areas all of which feel slightly different and have individual centres to each. Whereas Chengdu just feels like a small Beijing with no skyline and one city centre. Another tangible benefit of Chongqing is the ridiculously low rent in the city. For a nice 1 bedroom in a desired area of chengdu you will pay 2500-3000 per month. My newly built apartment in Nanping in Chongqing was 1500 a month for a one bedroom. Taxis are cheap too compared to Chengdu, and the subway system at present is more convenient than Chengdu.
Life in Chengdu beats the crap out of Chongqing in my opinion. Half a year in Chongqing and 6 years in Chengdu though, so I know Chengdu much better, but I visit Chongqing 2-3 times a year (I was most recently there 8 days ago). I regularly talk about Chengdu and Chongqing with Sascha, who first lived in Chongqing and then moved to Chengdu. He published a post comparing the two cities which is worth checking out: A Tale of Two Cities: Chengdu and Chongqing
Chengdu is far more culturally developed compared to Chongqing. Whereas Chengdu has thousands of years of history, Chongqing is really a rag-tag up-spring metropolis that is a meeting point for rural Sichuanese from all over the province. As a result, the city is dirty, hectic, poorly organized, and incredibly corrupt (by Chinese standards, too – it’s famous for corruption). That’s kind of what makes it fun, but in my opinion it’s fun to visit, not to live there. I lived in Jiefangbie, the most developed and cosmopolitan (if you can call it that) region of the city.
While life in Chongqing is cheaper, you have access to so fewer of the comforts that you have in Chengdu. Peter’s Tex Mex just opened in Chongqing, which was recently a big deal for expats there. We have like four of them in Chengdu and have for many years. Slums are everywhere in Chongqing and enormous districts in Chengdu are clean, brand new, and feature expansive grassy areas. The simple experience of walking around the tree-lined streets in Yulin is something unmatched in Chongqing, which is like a noisy construction site by comparison.
As far as events and things happening in the city, there is way more happening in Chengdu. Some friends in Chongqing are coming up to Chengdu this weekend for the Mega House Party, and they follow events in Chengdu. By comparison, there isn’t much to follow in Chongqing at all aside from one venue, Nuts Club (which admittedly, is a really cool place – it’s like a counterpoint to Chengdu’s Little Bar). Some districts in Chongqing are hip, like the university area, but getting around the city is so much more difficult than Chengdu. The city is geographically huge so it’s expensive to travel between different sections and you can’t ride bicycles. In my opinion, bicycle is the best way to get around Chengdu. Motorcycles blare around everywhere in Chongqing, it’s a very noisy place by comparison. The pollution is stifling, and worse than Chengdu.
This is already really long but I’ll add one final anecdote about my most recent trip to Chongqing. I had a 4pm bullet train ticket to return to Chengdu which was useless because the train at Chongqing had broken, so the train station was filled with thousands of people waiting to depart, except the train station announced nothing about when trains would run. It was a classic example of Chongqing chaos. Chengdu is a more modern, better run city, and the overall infrastructure really shows that as much as the character of the people (in my experience).
After the bullet train wasn’t an option, unscrupulous swindlers with breadbox vans wasted hours of our time saying that we’d leave for Chengdu when they would drive us away from the train station and then stop, insisting that the car wasn’t full enough, leaving us with no choice but to wait for them. This kind of thing always happens to me in Chongqing and has virtually never happened in Chengdu. Chengdu, to me, is a far more civilized place and I’m happy to pay more for it. I wouldn’t live in Chongqing again, but at least I always know exactly what I’m getting into every time I visit: chaos, in one form or another. I could write another 1,000 words about how insane and disorganized the Chongqing music festival that I played at a few weekends was, but I’ll save that one for another time.
Chengdu is far more culturally developed compared to Chongqing. Whereas Chengdu has thousands of years of history, Chongqing is really a rag-tag up-spring metropolis that is a meeting point for rural Sichuanese from all over the province.
Each to their own of course, but I never understand why anyone would favour Chongqing over Chengdu, the two are night and day apart. I’ve been a handful of times to CQ, but in the last few months have had no desire to return. The ease that’s so readily felt on the streets of Chengdu simply vanishes the moment I walk off the train in Chongqing. If I was to sum it up, it’s always felt like a broken city devoid of soul, beaten by a misguided chase to modernisation and material gain. The most claustrophobic city I’ve ever visited, and still it surges ahead with new developments on any scratch of real estate available.
Like you Zak I originally came to Chengdu on a 9 day sortie to decide if I would move. It was a hot and humid August, and from the get go I could see just how laid back the people were. My gut feeling on day 2 was that this was the place, and after two and a half years so far that decision is still right.
It’s well documented the locals of both these cities are fiercely competitive and by extension so seem to be the foreigners living in those respected cities. Brendan, you make Chongqing sound like the scene of the apocalypse. A broken city devoid of soul? That seems unfair. If anything the edginess of the place gives it more soul than Chengdu IMO. Compared to chongqing chengdu is too laid back, too placid, but that suits a lot of people and I understand that. It’s horses for courses.
And with the ole supermarkets and a metro supermarket I can’t think of anything you can procure here that you can’t get in CQ.
But yeah, if your a cyclist stick to chengdu.
It’s horses for courses.
Indeed. I’m using colourful description of course, but for a city with the density and expanse that Chongqing has I find it wanting. That might change in a few years from now if they can improve on city planning in particular, though given the current density that might not be so easy. Chengdu by contrast enjoys wide expanses of unused land, and by virtue of this a good deal more promise for future. Time will tell.
Mandarin is fine, south side of the city is best, a lot of teaching jobs and non-teaching jobs are more and more common, Chongqing is great to visit Chengdu is great for living, i think you need to ask yourself what you want. and then go get it.
Thanks everyone for the replies. Been up around emeishan the last few days so have been without much in the way of internet.
You guys have actually done a great job of representing the voices battling it out inside of me with regards to Chongqing vs. Chengdu, and Sascha, you managed to summarize it all pretty neatly: figure out what I want and then get it.
Charlie, thanks for your input. It was great meeting you and all the other guys at the barbecue. Good folks, and people with an interest in the place that they live (China, Chengdu, Sichuan, etc.). A strong counterpoint to where I’m living. Thank you for your willingness to help me with the job search. I’ll be sure to get my resume to you.
LongWang and Brendan both make good points and represent the sides well, from what I’ve been able to glean and observe myself regarding this debate. ChongQing isn’t a lifestyle city in the way that Chengdu is. It’s uncomfortably hot or cold, claustrophobic, massive, crazily constructed, spread out, inconvenient for transportation, etc. etc. It’s jacked up a few notches on the intensity scale compared to Chengdu, Chongqing’s copacetic neighbor.
That said, I loved the way Chongqing looked. It was a tab of acid. The lanscape lurches and dips and dives and then rises again, rain-beaten buildings fanning out endlessly. It is nuts. I spent about a week hanging out and walking around and sweating through everything but still totally engrossed with where I was at. It was also the first time I got some sort of serious stomach mess-up since i’ve been in China, but that seemed fitting. I was never bored with where I was at, but then I was also always a bit uncomfortable, a little bit piqued at having to handle all of the shit that is Chongqing’s resting state.
Chengdu on the other hand has been really chill. The people seem to be great. The lifestyle is legit, laid-back and and into leisure time/activities. I’ve made more Chinese friends here then I had in 10 months back in Suzhou, a very strong indicator for me. The expats who I’ve reached out to have all been awesome and forthcoming people, intent on making me feel at home here. The food is stupid good. But it’s flat and grey and it hasn’t filleld me up in the same way that an afternoon in Chongqing can.
So like Sascha said, I have to figure out what I want. Chongqing has either the pro or the con of having fewer expats and so seemingly more opportunites for a young dude like me, but that too might be a misnomer in light of the sort of work I’ll probably be looking for. Chongqing also just seems like a place I’d move to try to make myself tougher, not necessarily to live the happiest life. It’s a jolt and a constant one but so is a coke habit, and I’m not trying to pick up any adrenaline addictions that can’t be filled up by anything but the entropic mega cities of north-eastern Sichuan.
Thanks everyone! More thoughts? Would love to hear them. Get at me at [email protected] if there is something else. My PM doesn’t seem to be working.
Otherwise, I’ll see you guys tonight at this party.
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