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Quote:America and China are already constantly clashing, they just do it through proxies as in the Cold War. Iran is an abstract example…
Brendan, I think you and I are saying the same thing here. My point is that China consistently uses it’s Security Council power to veto United Nations sanctions against Iran, and continues to do business with Iranian companies after western powers have stopped. As you said, there is a lot of jockeying for power in the region and China pushes and prods from the other side to see what the US reaction will be. An subtle but effective affront to US hegemony.
However, according to CNN and Wikileaks, it seems that China has actually been instrumental in trying to broker a peaceful arrangement between the US and Iran, although the whole world seems to believe it’s China that is supplying them with the necessary equipment and technology to pursue their nuclear program.
And just for the record, I’m really not making a judgement on which side is right here, I’m just saying as opposed to direct military conflict, it’s a pretty good example of how the two superpowers jockey with each other on the international stage.
Quote:America and China are already constantly clashing, they just do it through proxies as in the Cold War. Iran is an abstract example…Brendan, I think you and I are saying the same thing here. My point is that China consistently uses it’s Security Council power to veto United Nations sanctions against Iran, and continues to do business with Iranian companies after western powers have stopped. As you said, there is a lot of jockeying for power in the region and China pushes and prods from the other side to see what the US reaction will be. An subtle but effective affront to US hegemony.
However, according to CNN and Wikileaks, it seems that China has actually been instrumental in trying to broker a peaceful arrangement between the US and Iran, although the whole world seems to believe it’s China that is supplying them with the necessary equipment and technology to pursue their nuclear program.
And just for the record, I’m really not making a judgement on which side is right here, I’m just saying as opposed to direct military conflict, it’s a pretty good example of how the two superpowers jockey with each other on the international stage.
1. America and China are already constantly clashing, they just do it through proxies as in the Cold War. Iran is an abstract example, a more concrete example is the Spratly Islands Dispute, where every time China pushes a little more, one of the other claimants (Vietnam, Malaysia, Philippines) will “invite” the US military to visit their Spratly holdings. As China’s need for resources increases, as well as their strength in relation to other superpowers, they are bound to push a little more. The US is aware of this, which is why they are stationing marines in Australia, announcing plans for a new long range stealth bomber, and increasing general readiness in the Asia-Pacific region.
2. China and the US still share a symbiotic relationship. Both countries are very well aware of how much they need each other. American corporations need the labor, the American government needs the loans, (Ironic that the loan money finances a military-industrial complex that sees the source nation as a threat) and as China emerges as a strong consumer nation the US needs a place to sell their shit. Posturing aside, there are lines that both countries will not cross.
3.
Quote:Most of us thought that China would change politically as its economy grew and it was embraced by the rest of the world in meaningful ways like hosting the Olympics. But instead of opening up, it has been closing up.If by “opening up” you mean things like Democracy and Human Rights, that is a flawed assumption the outset. Democracy is not inherently good, indeed it has a large number of disadvantages which you noted above, and the US has long since lost their moral legitimacy in regards to human rights questions.
Obama: Mr. President, the United States is very concerned about your human rights record.
Hu: I’m sorry, Mr. President, my translator must be broken, the only thing I heard was, ‘Guantanamo, Abu Graib, Waterboarding, civilian casualties from bombing and drone strikes…”
On that note, if a so-called “Democracy” like the United States can still perpetrate unjust wars based on false claims against sovereign states, then maybe that is the system of government that needs to be changed.
4.
Quote:China has been bombarded with propaganda that the United States is a bad guy for decades, and the average American also approaches the abstract notion of “China” with caution.This is a HUGE problem on both sides. All of us who live here have to deal with various degrees of dispute rooted in racism and nationalism, and it is just as bad in the US. My little brother went through basic training last year, and the drill sergeant was constantly saying things like, “If we go to war with China there are 1000 of them for every one of you, so you better learn to shoot fast and hit what you’re aiming at.” On one level, the rhetoric is just basic racists and idiots, but when that rhetoric comes from members of both governments it makes me think that both sides are fanning the flames of xenophobia for their own purposes and it saddens me that people can’t see through that. Still, I would even submit that this is part of the complex symbiotic relationship shared by the two superpowers. Hatred and Fear of Russia got the US to the moon, if the hatred is great enough on both sides who knows what could be accomplished.
1. America and China are already constantly clashing, they just do it through proxies as in the Cold War. Iran is an abstract example, a more concrete example is the Spratly Islands Dispute, where every time China pushes a little more, one of the other claimants (Vietnam, Malaysia, Philippines) will “invite” the US military to visit their Spratly holdings. As China’s need for resources increases, as well as their strength in relation to other superpowers, they are bound to push a little more. The US is aware of this, which is why they are stationing marines in Australia, announcing plans for a new long range stealth bomber, and increasing general readiness in the Asia-Pacific region.
2. China and the US still share a symbiotic relationship. Both countries are very well aware of how much they need each other. American corporations need the labor, the American government needs the loans, (Ironic that the loan money finances a military-industrial complex that sees the source nation as a threat) and as China emerges as a strong consumer nation the US needs a place to sell their shit. Posturing aside, there are lines that both countries will not cross.
3.
Quote:Most of us thought that China would change politically as its economy grew and it was embraced by the rest of the world in meaningful ways like hosting the Olympics. But instead of opening up, it has been closing up.If by “opening up” you mean things like Democracy and Human Rights, that is a flawed assumption the outset. Democracy is not inherently good, indeed it has a large number of disadvantages which you noted above, and the US has long since lost their moral legitimacy in regards to human rights questions.
Obama: Mr. President, the United States is very concerned about your human rights record.
Hu: I’m sorry, Mr. President, my translator must be broken, the only thing I heard was, ‘Guantanamo, Abu Graib, Waterboarding, civilian casualties from bombing and drone strikes…”
On that note, if a so-called “Democracy” like the United States can still perpetrate unjust wars based on false claims against sovereign states, then maybe that is the system of government that needs to be changed.
4.
Quote:China has been bombarded with propaganda that the United States is a bad guy for decades, and the average American also approaches the abstract notion of “China” with caution.This is a HUGE problem on both sides. All of us who live here have to deal with various degrees of dispute rooted in racism and nationalism, and it is just as bad in the US. My little brother went through basic training last year, and the drill sergeant was constantly saying things like, “If we go to war with China there are 1000 of them for every one of you, so you better learn to shoot fast and hit what you’re aiming at.” On one level, the rhetoric is just basic racists and idiots, but when that rhetoric comes from members of both governments it makes me think that both sides are fanning the flames of xenophobia for their own purposes and it saddens me that people can’t see through that. Still, I would even submit that this is part of the complex symbiotic relationship shared by the two superpowers. Hatred and Fear of Russia got the US to the moon, if the hatred is great enough on both sides who knows what could be accomplished.
